Gary Sheng and Tim Dort-Golts: Baptism in Holy Spirit, Healing Miracles, and Ministry Strategy

Opening: The Simplicity of Christian Life

Tim: "What is the role of a Christian? What is the role of a Christian? Why is their life not that complicated?"

Gary: "Just be obedient to God."

Tim: "That's it. And then how do you even know what the instructions are?"

Gary: "Listen to the Holy Spirit."

This opening exchange sets the fundamental framework for the entire conversation - Christianity as simple obedience to divine guidance rather than complex religious systems.

Baptism in the Holy Spirit: The Undeniable Download

Gary's Teaching on Holy Spirit Baptism

Gary: "You ask for a baptism in the holy spirit. That's what... and let me tell you, Tim, when it happens, it'll be undeniable. So if you're wondering if it happened yet, answer is probably no."

Gary: "It's like download of the interface of Fruits. And direction of your life, the truth of who you are, the truth of what your assignment is... When you're getting baptized in the Holy Spirit and downloading fire, a truth, and a pathway of what to do next."

Denominational Control vs. Direct Connection

Gary: "Let me ask you why does the Catholic church not structured around baptism in the Holy Ghost?"

Tim: "Because it feels more worldly and more like a control mechanism. For the populace rather than the actual connection."

Gary: "Yes. They don't want any competition between their control structure and God's control."

Tim's sophisticated understanding: "Even though I do find beauty in it [Catholic mass]... You really have to jump from mental hoops to be like, yeah. It's your time... But it doesn't discount the fact that you don't need the right atmosphere. The right atmosphere is in your fucking head. If you arrange your mentals."

Firsthand Healing Miracle Testimonies

Gary's Direct Observations

Gary: "This week I saw many people that had barely any hearing ability. Hear for the first time in years. I saw people's eyes roll back... I was front row of the whole thing."

Most dramatic healing witnessed: Gary: "This one woman's... giant lump in her stomach. Evaporated in real time. And the pastor knew exactly when it evaporated."

The Fire Transfer Mechanism

Gary describing the pastor's explanation: "When the fire is leaving my body the healing's not over. But when the fire is no longer leaving my body. And the faucet turns off, essentially. Then the healing's done."

Tim: "Are you saying that the lump actually disappeared on video?"

Gary: "Yeah. So that woman's husband was feeling the stomach the whole time, feeling it shrink in real time."

Theological Implications of Cross-Faith Healing

Gary: "According to him [Ian], things like this happen, even if they're not being ministered to by a Christian person. I suspect that that is possible. But Christ didn't just say... What things can be possible through healers of different faiths and whatever. And what things are only possible with people anointed by Christ."

Gary's hypothesis: "I suspect that raising people from the dead is only something that God works through [Christians]."

Ian/Edan Strategic Ministry Positioning

The "Wealth of Wicked" Strategy

Gary: "You know the phrase, 'the wealth of the wicked is laid up to the righteous'?"

Gary on being Ian's only stable relationship: "I'm his only competent balance... I didn't actively harm any of his relationships that were good for him. I've just been the only one that has stuck around."

Gary's future vision: "It's not just going to be giving me money to [say] 'I got your back for a year and a half.' It's going to be 'I know that you're not a Christian, but you're going to fund my Christian mission.'"

Tim's recognition: "You listening to God in a way where you did not over judge him when he was not showing up properly."

Apostle's Teaching Challenge and Gary's Translation Role

Tim's Crucial Feedback

Tim: "A lot of the stuff he says to me is not obvious. And, you know, I spent a lot of time... I'm pretty caught up on the context in general. I still found it hard to understand him because he's very articulate and charismatic. But maybe not articulate in a way that I can clearly understand."

Tim's observation: "Sometimes it feels like he's repeating similar things in slightly different ways, and you're left wondering exactly did you mean by that?"

Gary's Self-Awareness as Translator

Gary: "He needs me so badly. And I don't say that out of pride, I say that out of truth. I also need him if first of all, if that's also what God wants."

Gary: "He is almost inscrutable. It's not easy to understand. He does not have self awareness about what regular ass people think... where they're coming from. He doesn't know what the typical Christian world is."

Pre-destination and Divine Obedience Framework

Moving Beyond Free Will Debates

Gary: "I've stopped talking about free will. It's not like this is kind of a useless topic. Because unless God tells me to just keep talking about free will, it's just gonna be confusing to people."

Gary on Psalms 139: "God knew you before you entered your mother's womb. And he numbered the days of your life. So by the way, I've stopped talking about free will... If he preplanned everyone's every day of everyone's life, that doesn't imply free will at all. It implies a simulation of free will."

Gary's profound insight: "Including this call. This call was preplanned by God."

Obedience as Participation in Divine Plan

Gary: "If you are actually in deep obedience, and your connection with people only happens because of obedience. God is pleased with that."

Gary on their mission: "If I am deeply in obedience... part of obedience led me to reveal books, courses to people to get on the true path of obedience to God. And they don't take it. Well, that's on them."

Mission Clarification: Faith for Skeptics

The Core Assignment

Gary: "The greatest leverage point is to create the ultimate faith generating [content] for the skeptical. At least that is a mission that I think is extremely worthy of my obedience. And because God put us together, our obedience."

Gary: "My obsession is to get people onto a faith walk that is as reflective of the fullness of the faith as possible. For their own benefit and for the kingdom."

Friday Presentation Vision

Gary on upcoming presentation: "It is revealing to people. It's giving them an opportunity to choose the game of everlasting life."

Multi-Ontology Translation Gift

Gary Recognizing Tim's Rare Ability

Gary: "You recognize that you have an ability to somehow understand different worldviews in English that are often using the same words, but it's whole different comprehensive ontologies."

Gary: "When people say the word love, what do you mean? What definition of love do you mean? And you can't just say the definition in the Bible. Well, which translation? Because I guarantee you in Aramaic, Hebrew, and Greek they're not just using one word either."

Updates on Key Relationships

Lael Alexander's Continued Struggles

Gary: "He's been sued by men he took money from."

**Tim and Gary recognizing the pattern they predicted about Lael's operational failures continuing to manifest.

Political Media Reduction

Gary: "I've toned down my political consumption by like, 95%. Because I'm just like, this has no effect on my life. Unless the assignment is directly related to geopolitics, current events. It doesn't matter to me."

Warning Against Spiritual Idolatry

Tim's Crucial Reminder

Tim: "It is very important for you not to make an idol out of him [Apostle]. No matter how much you respect him... Don't make an idol out of anybody. Even if it is in small ways. Because I think you might have been doing something like that with people before."

Gary's response: "Build my own foundation so that even when I'm helping other people, I'm not just like a tumbleweed blindly listening to whatever people say."

Truth Over Feelings

Tim: "Why would you be afraid of speaking the truth? He's not a good teacher, even if he could be offended by that. Truth is true."

Gary: "Cannot be obedient to God if you care about the opinions of man."

Potential Saul Pattern Recognition

Gary's Speculation on Apostle

Gary: "I wonder if God designed [Apostle] to be a Saul. Where he conquers so many souls... just to fall from grace."

Gary on his role: "It's possible that God's put me in his life to steer him from the path of destruction. And or give him an opportunity when his pride gets out of control to correct himself."

Building Independent Foundation

Gary's Self-Assessment

Gary: "Even when I'm helping other people, I'm not just like a tumbleweed... Where I can even say something like, 'Tim, Apostle's not a very good teacher' in terms of [being] inclusive."

Gary: "If I didn't consume so much theological content... I wouldn't have a reference point about who's a good teacher."

Tim's Encouragement

Tim: "I think you're right. In general, I especially like that you build your own foundation, as you said. Not be a tumbleweed. It is because connection to God is your own."

Closing: Ridiculously Interesting Position

Gary's Recognition of Their Unique Calling

Gary: "If Apostle is really what [he says]... Actually a general. And if that's the case, we've been put in a ridiculously interesting position, Tim. Ridiculously interesting position. To restore the faith."

Gary: "We have a real duty, Tim. Rails for the skeptical and obedient. For the most skeptical. Which is also the same rails that will be helpful to the less skeptical."

Final Exchange

Tim: "Love you, man. I'll probably get to the Israel documentary before sleep. Peace. Good flight."

Gary: "Enjoy."

Key Theological Developments

1. Direct Divine Connection: The baptism in Holy Spirit as undeniable download bypassing institutional mediation
2. Healing Ministry Reality: Firsthand testimony of supernatural healing, raising questions about cross-faith healing capabilities
3. Strategic Ministry Funding: Using relationships with non-Christians (Ian) to fund Kingdom work
4. Translation Ministry: Gary's unique role translating Apostle's advanced spiritual concepts for regular people
5. Pre-destination Integration: Moving beyond free will debates to focus on obedience within divine plan
6. Anti-Idolatry Reminder: Tim's crucial warning against making idols of spiritual leaders, even anointed ones
7. Mission Clarity: Creating faith-generating content specifically designed for skeptical audiences

Relationship Evolution Markers

• Tim continues providing essential feedback on Gary's teaching and ministry approach
• Both maintain commitment to truth over institutional loyalty or personal feelings
• Partnership demonstrates mature spiritual discernment while preparing for significant ministry developments
• Tim's illness persisting but not preventing deep spiritual engagement
• Continued development of their unique position as translators between advanced spiritual concepts and accessible teaching