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Post-Monastery Spiritual Transition Discussion

Gary Sheng, Sofia Sunaga, and David Chang - August 1, 2025​

Car Ride to Two Hands Restaurant, Austin, Texas​

Executive Summary​

This conversation represents a pivotal moment in Gary, Sofia, and David's evolving spiritual partnership, occurring immediately after Gary's first Orthodox monastery experience. The discussion reveals deep spiritual alignment while exposing David's struggle between secular income needs and authentic Christian calling. Gary provides decisive spiritual counsel about the incompatibility of compromise with demonic systems, while Sofia demonstrates sophisticated theological understanding. The conversation establishes a foundation for potential long-term kingdom work collaboration while addressing immediate practical challenges.

Orthodox Christianity: Deep vs. Shallow Faith​

Gary's Post-Monastery Reflections​

Validation from Father Josif:

Gary: "He just validated my inclination. It was good. I feel like I wanted that. Well, I didn't need him to agree with everything, but I wanted to know what he thought... I continue to feel less not crazy. No, I'm just saying I continue to not feel crazy."

Orthodox vs. Other Christians:

Gary: "They're so of the world. I think it's probably better than nothing, that they go to church like once a week. It almost doesn't even feel like it's having an effect on them... I think the best way to talk about it is it's a neutered version."

Father Josif's Assessment:

Gary: "He talked about how we're in a fully pagan world now. Like, we're in the pagan age, right? Neo-pagan... He basically thinks that no other Christianity is real Christianity, which I think is mostly true."

Sofia's Orthodox Liturgical Insights​

The Power of Foreign Language Worship:

Sofia: "I just felt that to me there's something about a different language, and I think this is why Western people are so much going to yoga and Hinduism. There's something about the foreign language that almost enables us to experience God in a different way."

Liturgical Continuity:

Sofia: "Everything is the same, exactly the same... Liturgy, exactly, is exactly the same."

Monastic vs. Parish Life Balance:

Sofia: "The city and the hermit life. The yin and the yang. Without one, the other gets lost... In Eastern Christianity, in orthodoxy, this is still a living, breathing reality."

New Age to Christianity: Theological Understanding​

The Ontological Problem with New Age​

Gary's Insight:

Gary: "Like what you said the other day about how New Age is entirely focused on the light. But not the shadow... But it doesn't acknowledge demons."

Sofia's Understanding:

Sofia: "Yeah, we think it's only us... There are many more forces and beings that are... Because of our free will, we are the ones, conscious or subconsciously or unconsciously, who are opening the door for the activity of those beings within us. It's just that without the light of Christ, we can't see that."

Orthodox Theological Sophistication​

Sofia on Material vs. Spiritual Reality:

Sofia: "Everybody is missing or kind of losing his humanity little by little. It's this sense of the beyond the material. We are just materializing everything... We're limiting reality to being just the scene or the material world. Forgetting that we actually or not realizing that we actually can sense some into the unseen and the immaterial world."

Celtic Saints and Monasticism:

Sofia: "These saints and these monks... The miraculous comes from the supernatural. What is beyond nature. What is beyond the material explanation. Miracles are part of that... We get more and more evidence of this loving God. The reality beyond matter."

David's Spiritual-Professional Tension​

The Struggle for Security vs. Purity​

David's Position:

David: "I feel like I need to have a ground, especially after a brain injury, I need to have like a base from which I'm working. Even if it's so-called secular matters, I feel like I need to do this for a short period of time until the other things are more..."

Gary's Challenge:

Gary: "Why do you not trust God? Come on, come on... That's your assumption based on your secular experience? I guess you could say that. That's 100% your experience from your secular experience?"

David's Honesty About Past Patterns:

David: "For 20 years I've been kind of, you know, credit cards and jumping and you know what I mean? Like, I haven't necessarily had things secured when I jumped for new things."

Gary's Spiritual Authority and Counsel​

Moving in the Holy Spirit:

Gary: "I get in the back rooms of big churches after one conversation because I'm moving with the Holy Spirit. I got invited to do digital transformation for the Catholic Church because they saw the purity and they wanted to harvest my purity."

On Divine Timing vs. Human Effort:

Gary: "We're all within Christ's ontology because he created this earth, right? So the funding opportunities per se though, when they showed up for you, was it after the first time or second time you met someone?"

The Impossibility of Compromise with Evil​

Gary's Uncompromising Stance​

Against Secular Political Work:

Gary: "I feel like the whole framing is incorrect. First of all, the whole thing is incorrect... I completely, I completely challenge that. But the only thing that's useful is, is the billing and bills. Like I can't, I can't, I can't lie to you at this point."

On Spiritual Integrity:

Gary: "I think pretending like that's useful distracts you from what's actually useful. I think that is negative useful... You start lying at all. You start lying to your whole being, right?"

The Cost of Deception:

Gary: "I cannot compromise, I cannot, I cannot practice, I do not want to be paid to practice deception, and it's really self-deception, ultimately... when you destroy your intellectual and spiritual integrity, you can't just like have it back when you want it back."

The Military-Industrial Complex Reality​

Texas as Belly of the Beast:

Gary: "The natural conclusion of soulless capitalism is reinventing the military industrial complex because there's nothing more profitable than genocide... 80% of European military spending is from US arms manufacturers. That's how tied it all together. And most of that 80% spending is in Texas."

Arms Manufacturers and False Christianity:

Gary: "These defense manufacturers, these arms manufacturers, and their funders are Judeo-Christian, or they're culturally Judeo-Christian. And so they justify it... They can always justify why they, oh, well, if we don't do it, Lockheed Martin will do it."

Building Christian Centers of Gravity​

Gary's Vision for Christian Wealth Concentration​

The Strategy:

Gary: "The reason why I think it's important to build Christians centers of gravity of funding. Is so that they convert cynically to Christianity... If you create enough wealth concentrated that is able to be distributed for Christian means. Then you're going to have people that conform themselves to Christianity."

Reversing Current Dynamics:

Gary: "The flip side is happening right now. Right? It's atheistic money that forces spiritual people to conform to atheism. Right. So, what would it look like for the other way to have it?"

The Need for Soulful Leadership​

Why Alpha Schools Failed:

Gary: "But if the founder of that re-founding effort is a narcissistic, super-capitalistic atheist, who also doesn't have a good sense of ecosystem development... The foundations were just not pure, right? It has to be very soulful. You have to be, all of Jesus's qualities have to come through in the education, the energy of the education system."

The Christ-Centered Competitive Advantage:

Gary: "If I were to compete with Alpha Schools, I would talk about God. I would talk about what I learned to not do at Alpha Schools. And they would not be able to debate that. Because they're not willing to go there. They're not willing to embrace the full ontology that Christ has created."

David's Recognition of the Need for Transition​

Intellectual vs. Spiritual Readiness​

David's Self-Assessment:

David: "It's spiritual work that you need to have. Because intellectually you're there. You already know what you kind of need to do, right? But it's more of a spiritual thing."

The Bridge-Building Dilemma:

David: "The idea of saying goodbye to everyone else we've developed relationships with before. Even though the impact that we're going to have on a deeper, longer term level... But it's like to be out there in public. It's like potentially burning bridges left and right."

Recognition of Gary's Rare Position:

David: "So, you're in a rare position of being like that... I see Gary as a potential co-creative life partner in this mission. I've literally been considering what Gary's talking about for 20 years. It's just that Gary's taking it to another level."

Practical Support and Transition Planning​

Gary's Offer of Direct Support​

Financial Assistance Offer:

Gary: "And part of why I asked how much you needed, because I, I'm happy to pay you as a consultant for like a little bit. But you didn't give me like an answer. You gave me six to nine months. I was like, okay... How much do you need for one month?"

Political Network Connections (Reluctantly Provided)​

Gary's Limited Engagement:

Gary: "I have totally disengaged from that space... So these are my friends that that remain that might be entertaining this. But can you find a place just to park?"

Names Provided for David's Current Work:

  • John Updike (open primaries advocate)
  • James Pethoukis (blogger)
  • Samuel Arms (Republican policy with DeSantis)
  • Marcus Noel (education policy, Obama administration)
  • Zachary Levi (actor, anti-establishment)
  • Anastasia Uglova (libertarian privacy advocate)
  • Ron Roberts (representing black community perspective)

Sofia's Theological Sophistication​

Immanence vs. Transcendence​

Orthodox Emphasis on Transcendence:

Sofia: "Most of Orthodoxy is about transcendence. It's about caring for the soul, not about caring for Christ... And yet, God is constantly coming into nature, sustaining life by imminence. God's existence in everything, or presence, or energy, right?"

Beauty as Path to God:

Gary: "True beauty brings you closer to God. It reflects God." Sofia: "Love, truth, and beauty. Love, truth, and beauty. It's pretty simple. Everything stems from the original source, so we're seeing the shadows."

The Need for Both Worldly and Transcendent Engagement​

Sofia's Vision:

Sofia: "Christ can be there. Let's just say what you say about the workplaces. And when you draw the balance... if you're overspending, like this guy is as well, per pupil, it's like confusing as well, right? It's like, that's also not, it doesn't feel like it's, I feel like Christ wants us to be thrifty too, like steward the wealth well, as well."

Gary's Spiritual Development and Authority​

The Necessity of Negative Feedback​

Intentional Character Development:

Gary: "I've been fortunate to intentionally surround myself with people that give me negative feedback... It's not easy because it's not easy to take that feedback, right? But I think part of why, it's this reason number a million, why really trying to follow God and make sense is..."

Pride vs. Humility​

Understanding Pride's Root:

Gary: "It's interesting how pride is so deeply intertwined with insecurity. Because you think that when you think of pride, it's like, Oh, just confidence. It's not confidence. It's insecurity."

Complete Reorientation:

Gary: "Because the only person that you need, only entity that you need to be pleasing is one person. So it's like a complete reorientation. It's like, Gary, do you believe in this ontology or not?"

Spiritual Warfare Understanding​

The Reality of Demonic Opposition:

Gary: "The reality is people have all sorts of demons inside that will do things like sabotage someone for being polite, right? And that's just among many roadblocks that you'll face."

The Requirement for Purity:

Gary: "But who I am is just a product of doing the wrong thing for the last 10 years and just starting to really just spend all my time asking what does God want and just trusting that it is the right thing."

Assessment and Significance​

This conversation represents a critical juncture in the spiritual and professional development of all three participants:

Gary's Role: Emerges as spiritual teacher and guide, demonstrating uncompromising commitment to Christian principles while offering practical support for David's transition.

David's Struggle: Represents the challenge many face in transitioning from secular success patterns to faith-based approaches, requiring both spiritual and practical support.

Sofia's Position: Demonstrates sophisticated theological understanding while serving as bridge between Gary's uncompromising stance and David's practical concerns.

The conversation establishes the foundation for potential long-term collaboration in developing Christian leadership while addressing the immediate challenges of living faithfully in a secular world. Gary's willingness to provide financial support combined with his uncompromising spiritual counsel creates a unique opportunity for authentic kingdom work development.