Conversation Summary: Gary Sheng & Isaac Bennett on Faith, Education Reform, and Collaborations

Date: 2025-05-12

1. Initial Connections & Community Building (00:00 - 03:40)

Isaac and Gary discussed their mutual connection to Austin's faith community, particularly through Dani Poffenberger. Isaac described himself as new to the area and "on the outskirts of the friend group," creating an immediate connection with Gary who appears to be relatively new to Austin as well.

Isaac Bennett: "Anyways I'm kind of on the outside outkirts of the friend group as well. We're new here too. nice outskirt mafia, let's go."

They discussed Richard, who Isaac described as someone who champions going to Whitestone Church weekly and carpooling, showing "peer intention" that Isaac appreciates. They also discussed Dani Poffenberger, whom Isaac described as "world class" and was actually the first person he met when moving to Austin through a Facebook Marketplace transaction (buying a couch).

Isaac Bennett: "Dani's Dani's world class. She she's actually the very first person we met when we moved to Austin and yeah, literally, we bought her we bought our couch off Facebook marketplace..."

2. Gary's Faith Journey (03:40 - 06:15)

Gary shared his relatively recent faith journey, describing three key experiences that opened him to Christianity:

1. Discovering Kanye West's Sunday Service on YouTube, which made him think, "this has to be God," connecting it to how music has been meaningful in his life.

Gary Sheng: "...when I say, oh, Sunday service like open me up. and I was and then oh, which one did you attend? Which city? I'm like, oh, YouTube? I attended the YouTube one... But I I like the the thought was quite literally, oh, this has to be God. And also Gary, all of your most many of your most meaningful moments in your life were just music..."

2. A FaceTime call with his grandmother in China who broke into tears saying, "just believe in God," despite communist China's restrictions.

Gary Sheng: "...my grandma, my dad's side, um, on like a normal family, FaceTime US in China, where I' just catch up. She just broke broke out in tears saying, just believe in God, right?"

3. Meeting Christians he didn't perceive as hypocrites, unlike the "cultural Christians" he grew up around who "didn't actually believe what they were wearing around their neck."

Gary Sheng: "...the third one was actually meeting Christians that I didn't feel like we're hypocrites, which I you know, I'm sure there's so many but I grew up in a culture where it was basically all just cultural Christians, at least. That's what I felt. And that didn't actually believe what they were wearing around their neck, right?"

3. Background Connections (06:15 - 07:40)

Gary and Isaac discovered they both have connections to Illinois. Gary grew up in Aurora, Illinois, while Isaac mentioned being from "Peoria, South." This established another point of connection between them.

Isaac Bennett: "did you grow up, Gary?" Gary Sheng: "I grew up in suburb in Illinois, Aurora, Illinois." Isaac Bennett: "Yeah, I saw you went to school there and I thought maybe you did. I we're from Illinois as well.. Yeah, Peoria, South, yeah, you're like super close."

4. Gary's Vatican Project & AI Career Path (07:40 - 15:30)

Gary shared his extraordinary experience working with the Catholic Church on a "human flourishing framework" alongside Oxford, Harvard, and Boston College. He explained how, seated next to an "extremely talented technologist and scientist," they began envisioning radical technological transformation for the Church.

Gary Sheng: "...we realized how much we aligned on all the long-term opportunity we're like, let's be real. The Catholic Church is the biggest landowner in the world. It's the biggest education system. It's the biggest medical system..."

Gary Sheng: "...the potential of it to be the fastest acting disaster release, relief, resource, um reallocation and experimental giant experimental tentical lab like a giant tent like a lab where like you can experiment here, here, the here and here, then it's like whatever experiment's worth, you probably get across the whole system."

Gary described creating a venture called "Oavati" (combining "AU RE" meaning golden age/listening, and "VATI" from Vatican), which gained the Pope's approval. However, the project was shut down after they began uncovering uncomfortable truths about the church hierarchy.

Gary Sheng: "...the pope really loved it. Pope was also dying. Yeah. So his ability to like help us move forward through the deep church was not the best..."

Gary Sheng: "...we uncovered some stuff about, thank God, not the current pope... I think we're uncovering too much about things. And so literally around Christmas, I get this text that thank you for everything..."

Following this setback, Gary joined an "all expenses paid AI engineering boot camp" in Austin, which he initially viewed as a "free nerd vacation." The program turned out to be a talent recruitment operation for billionaire Joe Lamont. After several extended conversations, Joe hired Gary to help coordinate his various initiatives.

Gary Sheng: "...I didn't know that moral the story of the Charlie andal factory, but I think part of what what where what they were looking at...people thought that the prize was getting into the program. The prize was really like what happens after the program ends..."

5. Gary's Current Projects with Joe Lamont (15:30 - 19:30)

Gary described his current work with billionaire Joe Lamont, where he's trying to bring order to a "disorganized" ecosystem with "a lot of really smart people" who aren't well-coordinated because Joe isn't "playing the CEO role."

Gary Sheng: "...understanding the ecosystem that he has created, which is a bit disorganized and overspending on things and but to me, that's just an opportunity...because he has a lot of really smart people around him. They're just not coordinated because he's not playing the CEO role..."

Gary Sheng: "...there's basically a vacancy in leadership...it's like music to my ears, honestly."

Gary also shared his upcoming White House meeting with Paula White, for which he's been "meditating and praying" on what to discuss. He's considering the concept of "Make America Godly Again" and using underutilized church buildings for faith-based schools.

Gary Sheng: "...the phrase that came up to my mind was, uh, make America godly again, and we have basically um hundreds of thousands of church buildings around um the country that are, I think out of fear of being persecuted and sued, people are not turning into faith-based, um schools."

6. AI-Powered Education Reform (19:30 - 22:00)

Gary revealed his vision for education reform, using AI to efficiently teach core curriculum requirements, freeing students to pursue their passions or faith studies.

Gary Sheng: "...we have developed the leading AI that helps you get through common core in the first two hours of the day. And then the rest of the day you can just spend learning learning the faith or um writing an album, right? Or creating a fashion line or starting a startup...our vision for schools is 30 hours a day is that you're just pursuing your passions."

He criticized the current education system where "the best people in math or English" aren't teaching because "they're making money in the industry." Instead, Gary envisions schools led by "some of the best people you've ever met" including "moms" and "pastors."

Gary Sheng: "...the incentives are not there for the people that will the people or machines that would be best suited to help a student get great foundations in a basic knowledge, like basic field, um the incentives are not there to to work at such an unscalable level, right?"

7. Isaac's Agreement on Education Reform (22:00 - 24:15)

Isaac expressed agreement with Gary's educational philosophy, stating that the foundation of the public school system is "effectively daycare childcare" designed to "put people on an assembly line." He appreciated Gary's emphasis on encouraging students to "just do things" rather than merely theorize.

Isaac Bennett: "...I think that even the foundation of the public school system is uh, effectively daycare childcare.. You know, and it's also designed to put people on an assembly line."

Isaac Bennett: "...I like what you said about we need to teach kids or show kids the idea that they can just do stuff., you can just do things. You could just do things. You don't have to theorize necessarily. You can do things and you can iterate and do and do that. And and right now I don't think we're teaching them that. I think we're teaching them to be theorists.."

Isaac mentioned he was homeschooled and can't speak directly to the public school system except through observation. He noted that teachers like Hadley (Dani's friend) are "wonderful" despite working "within the existing system that sucks."

Isaac Bennett: "...I was homeschooled. I don't know anything about the public school system, so I can't really speak to it. It's just what I observe."

Isaac Bennett: "...somebody like Hadley. uh, she's an example of a really wonderful teacher within the existing system that sucks."

8. Discussion of Teacher Motivations (24:15 - 26:00)

Gary and Isaac discussed how to attract teachers like Hadley to new educational models. Gary suggested she would "make more money starting a micro school," but Isaac countered that money isn't her primary motivation.

Isaac Bennett: "Well, I guess just ultimately there's a different pitches for different people, right? Like she will make money she will make more money, that's important piece of conduct for her, but also, like, her kids will be happier and her job will be more fun, right?"

Isaac Bennett: "...the motivation for a lot of teachers, they don't go on to teaching because they're motivated by money the motivation for a lot of them is, are they building productive people? Are they affecting society in a way that they do to be the right outcome?"

Isaac suggested that to convince someone like Hadley, Gary would need to "show her outcomes" rather than financial incentives.

Isaac Bennett: "...you're never gonna get through her heart by money, you're gonna get through her heart by showing her outcomes. Outcomes of kids, you know, and at this point, obviously the outcomes are the hard part because there's not many examples of it, but if you can actually convince her intellectually that the outcomes will be different, then then you'll get to her heart."

9. Closing & Follow-up Plans (26:00 - 27:30)

The conversation ended as Isaac needed to leave for an appointment. Gary mentioned his White House meeting with Paula White on Friday and asked for Isaac's input on what he should discuss. Gary framed the question as:

Gary Sheng: "...what should Paulaai do, what should Trump do, that helps create more godly, happy kids, right? That's that's like the open question. I don't want to say that I have an answer to. Um, but like that would be a win for Trump. It would be a win for Paula White. It would be win for all of us. Like, what would that be? I think that's my prompt for you."

They agreed to continue the conversation later in the week, with Gary offering to send Isaac two ideas via email in the meantime.

Key Themes & Insights

1. Faith as a Journey: Gary's path to faith came through music (Kanye's Sunday Service), family connection (grandmother in China), and authentic community (non-hypocritical Christians).

2. Institutional Reform vs. Creation: Gary's experience trying to reform the Catholic Church from within led to resistance, while his current approach focuses on creating new institutions rather than changing existing ones.

3. AI-Powered Education: Gary envisions using AI to efficiently teach core curriculum requirements in "the first two hours of the day," freeing students to pursue passions, faith studies, or creative endeavors.

4. Community-Led Education: Both Gary and Isaac value education led by trusted community members rather than traditional credentialed teachers who may lack industry experience.

5. Outcomes Over Credentials: Isaac emphasized that teachers like Hadley are motivated by creating positive outcomes for students rather than financial incentives.

6. Faith-Based Initiatives: Gary's "Make America Godly Again" concept involves repurposing church buildings for faith-based schools, creating an intersection between education reform and faith communities.

7. Networking & Connections: Both Gary and Isaac value authentic community connections, as evidenced by their mutual appreciation for Dani Poffenberger and discussion of "outskirt mafia" as newcomers to Austin.