Gary Sheng & Tim Dort-Golts - Israel Theology and Divine Patterns

Opening - Health and Spiritual Check-in

Tim opens with health update, dealing with persistent cold/cough: "I'm still coughing... It's super annoying. I didn't even want to be the guy who complains about it all the time." Expresses increased prayer practice: "I'm praying more, just generally throughout the day."

Gary reflects on divine flow: "Everything is just. Flowing how I think it should flow." Mentions meeting someone who worked for Joe Liemandt for eight years who "basically said he was like a demon."

Israel/Palestine Theological Wrestling

Tim's Old Testament Struggle

Tim expresses deep conflict about Old Testament commands: "I'm exactly at past this point in the Old Testament. Where God commands Israel to destroy the tribes around. To claim the land... If it's really God telling this, what can I say as a follower of God?"

Gary responds with principle: "You're not supposed to lean on your own understanding, which is, like, not satisfying. Completely."

Divine Justice and Mercy Speculation

Gary theorizes about divine mercy and life review: "I think there was something in us that sympathizes with women and children, because women are ultimately. Led by men... God may be like you played your parts. In this story. Now I'm going to educate you on the truth."

On incentive structures: "If he revealed that. It would really reduce the incentives. Of course, incentives work on a much less important scale."

Covenant Theology and Jewish Chosenness

Gary articulates sophisticated covenant theology: "They're super cursed. There's no group that gets more hate... They deserve it. But it's also like, I'm not taking anything personally anymore, because I'm like, oh, this is just what's happening."

On replacement theology danger: "What that would imply is that God is disloyal to his people. That he makes promises to. Which would mean he would be disloyal to us. Too."

Uses powerful analogy: "When people they cheat on their current boyfriend or girlfriend. And. For the next girlfriend. And then they get cheated on by the girlfriend... You literally started it off. With someone that's not. Proven to be honest."

Jewish Suffering and Divine Plan

Gary explains Jewish predicament: "They continue to suffer, even with their wealth and power because they're constantly paranoid... They're constantly. Because they're also living a lie, right? They're not dwell the Holy Spirit. Is not dwelling within them."

Tim's understanding: "The Jews didn't accept Jesus as the Messiah... And being... They're basically like, let's justify why we're right about Jesus not being a messiah. And then one day they'll be like, fuck. We wrote all this shit. That was fake."

Islamic Threat Analysis

Gary's assessment: "Islam is not a religion of forgiveness. And peace. It's not... It's a religion of conquest."

On practical implications: "What has happened when they have given basically two state solution for the last whatever dozens of years? Is you have young men that understandably, understandably are like. My job in this earth is to destroy Israel."

Tim's agreement: "Islam, when it's properly practiced. Is just. Like eating the world."

Personal Calling and Divine Obedience

Tim's practical philosophy: "Why would you waste your time? On just being emotional about things. Just being swayed away by constant news, by constantly being on the news. What for? If that's not your calling."

On predetermined roles: "If there is a predetermined end. If there are specific roles that you can play. Why wouldn't you?... Every step away is rebelling from God. We're rebelling against God."

Psalm Prayer Session

The two read together Psalms 139, 91, and 23. Tim particularly moved: "This is something I really need right now... This is a beautiful prayer."

Key verses emphasized:

• Psalm 139: "For thou has possessed my reigns. Thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made."
• Psalm 91: "He shall cover thee with his feathers and under his wings shelter trust."
• Psalm 23: "The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want."

Paul-Timothy Biblical Parallel

Gary reads about Paul and Timothy's relationship: "Paul first met Timothy in Lystra. During missionary journeys and saw great potential in him... Paul referred to Timothy as his son. Highlighting this familial bond."

The parallel continues: "Timothy co authored several epistles. Books, right? Like with Paul and was a significant responsibility, such as leading the Church in Ephesus and representing Paul in difficult situations."

Tim recognizes: "Interesting similarity in interesting patterns... Divine patterns."

Michael Levin and Consciousness Framework

Gary introduces Levin's work: "The human body. Is an interface. For. The pattern of tim. And a rabbit's body is an interface for. The intelligent pattern of. A particular rabbit."

Tim grasps immediately: "Basically, a room for the spirit, essentially. With the biological ones."

On complex human receptacles: "Humans are complex enough of receptacles. Of agents. Like unseen agents... Can be overtaken by many, many things at a time."

Technological-Spiritual Metaphors

Holy Spirit as API Credits

Tim's breakthrough insight: "The connection of the Holy Spirit is almost like your API credits."

Gary expands: "AI alignment. It's like, sorry, that prompt doesn't work right now... This model is not for summoning a yacht when what we want you to be doing. Is this?"

Reality as Divine Prompt Engineering

Gary: "In genesis. You have God doing seven prompts. Our whole reality seems to be. About prompt engineering."

Tim adds: "You got to prompt the world."

On divine censorship: "It's like a very constrained kind of dynamic. Reality. Model. Where it's like, yes, you can raise people from the dead. But only when we say we want you to."

Travis Oliphant Update

Gary reports: "I chatted with. Travis. For two and a half hours. He's just been super busy. The arrangement wasn't quite right... He's just too busy. Right now."

Future potential: "What's going to come from that friendship. Tim. Is like more than any of us can imagine. Because he's, like, super special. He really cares. And I think he's blessed."

On Mormon humility: "It's given me humility, man... I do think our God is merciful. I think our God. If he were to just fixate on where we're messing up, none of us would have any holy spirit."

Trans-denominational Vision

Gary emphasizes need for bridges: "There's a reason we need to be bridges across different cultures and help people understand we are one body of Christ."

Tim connects to apostolic tradition: "You know who else traveled the world? To spread the gospel. Not that I'm comparing, but not just Paul, but all the apostles."

Gary reflects on preparation: "What? I think that we were just practicing with the crypto space. Learning to travel and host events... Crypto is totally religion. It's. Mostly soulless religion."

Multimodal Thinking Appreciation

Tim expresses deep gratitude: "I appreciate that. You are almost like a multimodal thinker. You're not staying constrained within one idea all the time... Truth can withstand scrutiny. And if you are not scrutinizing truth all the time, that you're not doing your best."

Adds personal note: "I never judge you for whatever you tell me. And I'm trying to be the receptive ears. And I'm trying to help you. Think through that."

Scientific-Theological Integration

Gary on unique position: "How many people, Tim? Can explain it to engineers. Because I've spent thousands of hours on cursor. How many people that are, like, want to be theologians like me? That are. In practice. Not just, like, thinking about shit. Like, actually. Try to get in the field."

Travel Planning

Discussion of Lebanon trip (October/November) and Vatican visit. Tim needs visa for Lebanon with Russian passport. Gary seeks Middle Eastern Christian experience: "I think it's a really good experience. For me to talk to people that. Believe that they're following a tradition... That go dates back to the. Early first century."

Closing Reflections

Gary on divine connection: "I do believe that. God connected us for a reason, Tim. And that all of your experiences. And your ability to connect across cultures... There's a reason for this."

Tim on generals of faith: "The more right way would be you or Jordan. Type of people or apostle."

Final commitment to continue dialogue about truth management business and spiritual development, with Tim offering to accompany Gary on travels if useful.

Key Themes

1. Wrestling with Divine Justice: Both participants grapple with difficult questions about God's sovereignty, ethnic conflict, and divine judgment
2. Covenant Theology: Sophisticated understanding of Jewish chosenness, suffering, and eventual redemption
3. Islamic Incompatibility: Frank discussion about Islam as conquest religion incompatible with Christian universalism
4. Technological Metaphors: Creative use of programming concepts to understand spiritual reality
5. Paul-Timothy Parallel: Recognition of their relationship mirroring biblical mentorship model
6. Trans-denominational Unity: Vision for bridges across cultures and denominations through discipleship infrastructure
7. Scientific-Theological Integration: Unique position bridging technology, science, and theology