Metadata
Orthodox Monastery Theological Discussion
Gary Sheng, Sofia Sunaga, and Father Josif - August 1, 2025
Holy Archangels Greek Orthodox Monastery, Austin, Texas Area
Executive Summary
This transcript captures a profound theological and spiritual discussion between Gary Sheng (tech entrepreneur with atheist upbringing), Sofia Sunaga (spiritual seeker with Brazilian background), and Father Josif (Orthodox monk from South Africa) at a Greek Orthodox monastery. The conversation ranges from Gary's first experience with Orthodox liturgy to deep theological discussions about the nature of God, contemporary threats from technology, and the differences between Orthodox Christianity and other denominations.
Setting and Context
Gary's First Orthodox Liturgical Experience
Sofia's Guidance:
"So this is the deep end. We're starting at the most kind of secluded, right? There are parishes where you will feel much more of the familiarity of what a church kind of practice might be, even in the West."
Gary's Immediate Reaction:
Gary: "I think people should go to multiple churches." Gary: "This is like the opposite of TikTok." Gary: "I can see why people like this."
Sofia on Foreign Language in Worship:
"I just felt that to me there's something about a different language, and I think this is why Western people are so much going to yoga and Hinduism. There's something about the foreign language that almost enables us to experience God in a different way."
The Nature of Holiness and Liturgical Experience
Sofia on Holiness:
"To be holy should be broken heart, at the root of the word. So it's apart from the word... Because God made everything, right? He's not a matter. He's the original matter of everything. So material reality is very different."
On Liturgical Transcendence:
Sofia: "So in a way, liturgy is that moment where the intangible, we can have a little bit of experience of that mystery. Because our minds are materials still, our frames, they're too small to be able to understand the greatness of God."
Gary's Experience:
Gary: "It feels like another world." Sofia: "Very much so."
Personal Backgrounds and Journeys
Sofia's Religious Journey
Family Background:
"I come from this intellectualized class, you know... My dad is. My mom gave me some religious education, but it was always a little bit like it's for a perspective kind of thing. Not that it's the foundation of ontology, of reality, of everything that is."
Overcoming Intellectual Barriers:
"I couldn't say Jesus and the Mother of Mary and the Mother of God without, that's my mother language, right? I couldn't say the words without having some amount of stigma around it... I felt that I needed to go to the Hindu, British, whatnot in the New Age so that I could get back into the exercise of this inner space of communion."
Gary's Background Revealed to Father Josif
Family History:
Gary: "My ancestors from China, one of them was a pastor, a Protestant pastor, before Christianity was banned. My grandmother on my father's side is Protestant as well. But it skipped my parents. So I grew up in an atheist household."
Atheist Upbringing:
Gary: "My parents came from China, where religion was basically banned when they were growing up. So they never picked a background."
Gary's Tech Industry Connections:
Gary: "I spent my career in technology. I know 50 people that know Peter Thiel directly... I briefly advised Pope Francis. And then I just realized... You hear the cardinals doing rumors that Pope Francis is summoning portals to hell."
Meeting Macrina - Homeschooled Orthodox Youth
Educational Background:
Macrina: "Most science books are highly evolutionary. However, I mean, growing up with books, you learn that that's not the truth. You know God made things and... Also, mommies try to find books that are more creation-based."
Transition to Public School:
Gary: "How do you feel about that?" Macrina: "I don't know. I guess I'll just have to see when I get there. I'm a pretty social person, so socially, I don't think it's weird... Once you have the foundation, whatever comes, right?"
Father Josif's Core Theological Teachings
Orthodox vs Catholic Distinctions
Fundamental Difference:
"The Catholic Church doesn't follow the Bible anymore. It doesn't follow it anymore. The Orthodox Church follows it to the letter."
Catholic Rhetorical Style Critique:
"If you listen to Catholics, they're like Jews. The way they speak, unbelievable. They've got such rhetoric that they wangle their words and they use them to argue in ways that you can never come right with them. There's not a straight answer."
Orthodox Directness:
"But the Christians are straight. What's this? Yes, that's one. One, two. Two, three... If you like it, you don't like it. This is what it is. If you like it, come to it. If you don't like it, do whatever you want. It's your free will. That's Christianity."
Historical Split (1054 AD):
"They started from a lot earlier. And they changed what God gave them. And we said, don't change. And they changed... Eventually at 1054, they were so fed up. And they said, we don't want you part of us anymore."
The Fall, Pride, and Obedience
Pride as Root of All Sin:
Sofia: "On the fall, if you could speak from an agnostic perspective on the theme of pride and obedience." Father Josif: "Because of pride. The fall was out of pride. And that's why there was no obedience. You can't be obedient if you have ego and pride."
Nature of True Obedience:
"If I say, do this for me. You say, yes, sure, I'll do it for you. How much would you like? A full cup? Half a cup? You're humbling yourself. You're sacrificing yourself. You're serving for the other person's will."
Monastic vs Universal Christian Rule:
Sofia: "And this is the monastic rule. If you could speak of obedience." Father Josif: "It's a Christian rule. Monastics adopt it. Everybody should. But we don't. It's the proper way. To live as a Christian."
Christology and the Incarnation
The Two Natures of Christ:
"So He came down on earth. And He took on skin and flesh and bones and will. Everything like we are. 100% like we are. So that He could suffer for us under the skin. Not as a God but as a human... This human nature suffered completely like a human. But it's in one being... But only the human side suffered."
The Forge Analogy:
"It's like taking a metal. You know you take metal into the furnace. And you hit it to make a knife or a sword... You put it back in the fire to get hot again. What are you doing? Are you damaging that fire by any chance? What are you damaging and smacking and beating? The metal. The fire is not being affected. That's the same thing with God when He came down as man. The man was beaten to a pulp. God was not affected."
The Divine Economy:
"He could not stand to see His creation separated from Him anymore. Because of one evil being. And His angels who decided to, you know, make, cause havoc everywhere... So God said, okay. You can do what you want. You have free will. I can't stop you... So instead, I will come down and live the sacrifice that's needed to pay for all those sins."
Essence vs Energies - Core Orthodox Doctrine
The Wood Stove Analogy:
"Think of a little wood stove. Like a wood stove in a house that burns... Now, what are you going to feel from here, from this distance? The warmth that you ever wanted, right?... But are you feeling God? Yes. But God is that wood stove. What are you feeling? I'm feeling God's energies... Well, do you want to partake in God? Go stick your head in there and see if you can live."
Catholic vs Orthodox Understanding:
"We do not, and the Catholics don't have that separation... They can't figure it out. They don't have that distinction. So, they think God is everywhere... We say God is every present, fills all things, but it's his energies. His energy. Not his essence. His essence you cannot partake in."
The Eucharist Explained:
Sofia: "I hope I get the mystery of the actual transmutation of the body and blood, the bread and the wine, into the actual flesh and blood." Father Josif: "Well, in the actual body and blood of God, yes. But it's not in essence. It's by grace. It's by energy, not in essence. You cannot partake in the essence of God."
Contemporary Issues and Warnings
Modern Christianity's Dilution
Why Christianity Seems Meaningless:
"Well, because there's so many Christians in the world. They have different denominations. And they've turned it into, like we said, mud. So that's why nobody cares. So what does that mean to me, Christian?... Because the image of Christianity is so ugly. Because it's not orthodoxy."
Modern Idolatry and Neo-Paganism
Society's Idolatrous State:
"Look, the world is in a neo-paganistic state. That's what it's in. They make idols of everything. Idols of their health. Idols of their money. Idols of their wives. Idols of their children. Idols of their behaviors. Idols of their sports... They make idols of everything."
The Mechanism of Demonic Control:
"It's all demonic. It's just different plays of the demons... Just to control people by deceiving them... I don't have to deceive you. I just have to give you what you like... If I've trained you to like bad things... All I need to do is make you like bad things. I don't need you to even believe in me or anything. You're already far from God."
Technology, Surveillance, and Transhumanism
Gary's Industry Connections:
Gary: "I know 50 people that know Peter Thiel directly... And he calls himself a Christian. He's not a Christian. But his whole body is shriveled up because he's living a lie. And then I know many of the leading transhumanists."
Palantir as Ultimate Evil:
Father Josif: "Palantir is the most evil thing I've seen in my life... It's one of the most evil things they're doing. Because it's getting everybody connected into a new system that we have no idea about. It's not this internet that we know about. It's a new system and it'll be completely controlled."
Digital Currency Control System:
"Especially if they start doing digital currency and everything is... You're finished. What are you going to do?... One of them crossed the road. But he jaywalked... A few seconds later, ding. We've taken off so much money from your account as a fine. You're finished, man."
WeChat Model Coming to America:
"What is it in China? WeChat. You can't do something without a phone. What do you buy without your phone? If you can't scan, what are you going to do?... That's coming here. They're coming everywhere."
End Times and the Antichrist System
System Preparation for Antichrist:
"Before he even comes, the system's going to be in through the forerunner of the Antichrist. In other words, he's going to come and have it ready. He's not going to have to work for it. He'll come and the systems will be all done."
Noahide Laws and Guillotines:
"Do you know that the Noahide laws from 1997 were signed in? And every single year, they're affirmed. They're signed by the presidents every single year... They even bring in the guillotine... They've instituted it in the state of Georgia and other things. And the Noahide laws are you don't follow, they cut your head off."
Transhumanism as Control Mechanism:
"Transhumanism is the result of what's coming... Because he's going to use biometrics, transhumanism, all of that... Because he's going to know in real time where you are, what you're thinking, and everything. Every single person."
Biblical Israel vs Modern State
True Definition of Israel
Biblical Israel Explained:
"Israel means we see God. We have the vision of God. The Israel of God is the one who follows God. Who follows God? It's Christ who's God and his followers. That's who Israel is."
Gary's Recognition:
Gary: "It's the body of Christ." Father Josif: "That's who Israel is. The rest are not Israel. They're Khazarians. They're Ashkenazi Jews. Who migrated from like Ukraine."
Correcting the Blessing Deception:
"They say if you hate Israel, you're not blessed if you do. If you bless Israel, you're blessed. That's a total lie. It's a total lie. It's not in the Bible. It says you bless Abraham and his seed. And in the New Testament, in the book of Galatians, it says his seed is Christ."
Gary's White House Experience
Christian Zionist Deception:
Gary: "I get invited to White House faith office summits regularly. So I can see the Christian Zionists... And the great deception of Israel being Israel is the most retarded, to use my language, deception. But evil deception ever."
Political Control Mechanism:
Gary: "If you mention something about Christ or you mention something other than the Zionist idea in the White House, you'll never be invited again."
The Pacification Strategy:
Gary: "They say that so that you can keep your quiet. To further confuse and pacify and subjugate the population... It is a, we are the Christian government, right? We are, God sent us to lead America. And to serve Israel."
Gary's Spiritual Journey and Awakening
Recognition of Evil Systems
Tech Industry Connections:
Gary: "Let me tell you how close I am to all this... This was my last week of consulting for that company because I just realized what it was about. But they institute trackers on all the devices of all their employees... I was advising a school system where they track all the kids activity too."
Understanding the Scope:
Gary: "None of this is conspiracy theory, right? It's just reality... You can imagine just how... Someone is awake. You can imagine how lonely I feel."
Putin and Western Control:
Gary: "Understanding why Putin is actually popular... But he is popular. Because waging a proxy war against the West makes sense. Sorry to say that. It is completely controlled by Satan."
Spiritual Shift from Control to Surrender
From Activism to Purification:
Gary: "I've shifted from feeling the need to control things because God is in control. And just try to purify myself. Because I think a lot of that desire to do good at scale is like exactly the language... Sometimes you're like, they think that they're trying to do good. It's like, how do we impact millions of people at once with this system?"
Recognition of Pride in "Good" Intentions:
Gary: "It's that exact sort of tech surveillance system that they would love to institute everywhere... It's obviously probably already mostly instituted anyways, secretly or not so secretly on all the devices anyways."
Father Josif's Spiritual Counsel
Call to Orthodox Faith
Direct Invitation:
"Listen, the only way to clean yourself, Gary, is you've got to come to Christ. I'm just telling you that. You don't have to. I'm just telling you my opinion. But the way to clean your soul is to come to Christ. He can only heal you."
Exclusivity of Christ's Healing:
"He can only give you that freedom from the passions... Christ can only heal our soul. That's what He came for. Nobody else can do it. Remember when we went back to what we were saying. No human could bridge that gap. Only God could."
Encouraging Investigation
Test Everything:
"If I were you, I'd test Orthodoxy. Test it. See, what's this? Why this? Why that? Why that? Where does it come back to that? Check it all out. Cross-check it... Because that's the only way. Because when you do that, you'll come to Orthodoxy."
Orthodox Confidence:
"Because it's the only faith that we don't care. Ask what you want. You know. If I don't know, somebody else might know. Or if there's something weird, we'll find out."
Life's Singular Importance:
"In other words, don't give your life to something completely if it's wrong. Why would you do that? You've got one life to live. You don't have two and three. One life. Live it right."
Key Theological and Spiritual Insights
Gary's Aphantasia and Spiritual Perception
Sofia's Observation:
"There was a way that you were experiencing what you were experiencing when we were in it together. You have a sense, actually, more subtle than most people don't... Of the subtle. Of the energetic... Your experience is physical. You have a physical experience of the... spirit realm, maybe?"
Gary's Idolatry Resistance:
Gary: "Well, I find it hard to make idols... I appreciated our sports teams, but I never became, like, a fanatic, right? Well, because it's idolatry... I would always kind of go in and out of depression, because I just... Would think too much about... The world."
The Nature of Free Will and Divine Justice
God's Respect for Free Will:
"God said, okay. You can do what you want. You have free will. I can't stop you. Because I've given you free will. I've given that. So I can't take it back. Because God doesn't do that. He doesn't give a gift and take it back."
Divine Solution to Evil:
"So instead, I will come down and live the sacrifice that's needed to pay for all those sins. So that all my children can come back to me if they want me to come back to me. But at least I'll give them the opportunity to come back to me."
Significance and Implications
This conversation represents a profound encounter between traditional Orthodox Christianity and contemporary technological awareness. Father Josif's teaching demonstrates how ancient Christian theology directly addresses modern spiritual and technological challenges, while Gary's background provides a unique perspective from someone deeply embedded in the systems of control being critiqued.
The discussion reveals the Orthodox Church's confidence in its theological positions while maintaining openness to genuine inquiry. Father Josif's encouragement to "test Orthodoxy" reflects a faith tradition secure enough in its truth claims to welcome rigorous examination.
Most significantly, the conversation illustrates the Orthodox understanding of how spiritual purification and theological truth intersect with practical resistance to dehumanizing technological systems, offering a path forward that prioritizes divine relationship over human control mechanisms.