Miraculous Ministry, Ecclesia, and Spiritual Warfare Dialogue

Date: September 14, 2025
Participants: Gary Sheng, Peter Han
Location: Austin, TX (various locations including car ride and Peter's location)
Duration: ~60 minutes
Context: Peter visiting Austin area after trip to East Texas ministry work, Gary picking him up and driving around Austin while discussing spiritual experiences and ministry philosophy

Executive Summary

This conversation captures Peter Han sharing recent miraculous ministry experiences from East Texas while providing Gary Sheng with deeper insight into how authentic Ecclesia (God's government on Earth) operates versus traditional church structures. The discussion weaves together themes of miraculous healings, supernatural provision, racial identity versus God-given identity, the Holy Spirit's role in ministry, character versus gifting in spiritual leadership, and the challenges of operating in supernatural ministry while maintaining humility and proper accountability.

Key Themes and Discussions

Miraculous Ministry and Supernatural Experiences

Peter's Recent Ministry Context:

"I've gone to churches and schools before, so it does require a fair amount of setup. I had to crank something out yesterday on the plane."

Active Miraculous Ministry:

"I'm certainly... an active part of the miracle scene... Even I've seen it and done it. Just all the different things? All the different flavors? I'm not afraid for healing... I've gotten... not me, obviously, in the Lord, but... seeing the deaf here, seeing the lame walk."

Faith as Activating Factor:

"It's easier outside of the US, but... Why easier outside? There's just more faith. There's more faith?... It's all activated by faith. Yeah, it is. That's the thing that people don't realize."

Gary's TED Talk Christianity Insight:

"Because I think... I think there's probably a reason why you... sent me that... pagan Christianity starter. Because... if you think that... Christianity is... like TED Talks... it doesn't even occur to you that... miracles are not just stuff that convinced a bunch of people from... 100s."

Miraculous Ministry Principles:

• Faith Activation: Miracles require active faith to manifest
• Cultural Faith Barriers: US Christianity often lacks expectation for supernatural
• Authentic vs. Performance: Miracles as authentic ministry rather than show
• Geographic Openness: International contexts often more receptive to supernatural

Supernatural Provision and Gas Tank Miracle

Three-Day Car Miracle:

"One time we drove... easily 60 miles, 80 miles, and brought the car back to the airport completely full, still... We drove that car for three or four days... But no gas was emptied? Yeah, no gas was emptied at all."

San Francisco Mission:

"And we went around San Francisco three or four times, right literally around the city. So we drove easily 80 miles in these last three days."

Divine Provision Recognition:

"We returned it like, yep, and still, we brought it back full, and we didn't have time to realize, oh, God, we're going to have to pay for this."

Supernatural Provision Framework:

• Mission-Focused: Miracles occurring during ministry assignments
• Practical Needs: God providing for logistical requirements
• Stewardship Relief: Divine intervention preventing financial burden
• Team Witness: Multiple people experiencing same miracle

Ecclesia vs. Traditional Church Structure

Ecclesia Definition:

"If you want to call it that, it's basically Ecclesia, God's government on Earth. Right. So when you are operating in that, then God's power shows up too."

Mission-Oriented Structure:

"It's like missions. It's like literally missions, right? But they're missions not just abroad, even here in the U.S."

Power and Structure Connection:

"So we've been on assignments where... I was in a group here... I've been on assignments with people in that group where..."

Ecclesia Characteristics:

• Divine Government: Operating under God's direct authority rather than human institution
• Mission Assignments: Specific divine directives rather than programs
• Supernatural Power: God's power manifesting through proper spiritual structure
• Apostolic Function: New Testament ministry patterns in contemporary context

Spiritual Warfare and Gifting Challenges

Fame and Politics Problems:

"The hardest thing, though, is it's hard for them to stay because of all the stress and being... of operating in that, the people... It creates a lot of politics? Yeah, it creates a lot of... Fandom complications?"

Unhealthy Dynamics:

"Yeah, it's very unhealthy for all parties involved, right? For the persons who the Lord is using. For the people who just all of a sudden believe that... that this person is special or better."

Gary's Idolization Recognition:

"And then idolize them. Yeah. Right."

Peter's Safety Strategy:

"So... Always keep a low profile. It's the safest way, always."

Ministry Dangers:

• Celebrity Culture: People treating anointed individuals as special or better
• Political Complications: Human dynamics corrupting spiritual ministry
• Idolatry Temptation: Both for minister and recipients
• Spiritual Pride: Gifting leading to character compromise

Holy Spirit Guidance and Accountability

Primary Guide Recognition:

"So is your... Is your main... guide the Holy Spirit? Sure, but... It's not... just myself and the Holy Spirit because there is... always a chance of... Of misinterpreting?"

Accountability Structure:

"So it is my main guide. And it is always the Holy Spirit, but also in accountability... Wise counsel? Yes. Where they also... I trust that they hear on my behalf, too."

Protective Function:

"So they save me... When I submit, I find that they save me from big problems that I could have avoided otherwise."

Relationship Discernment:

"Don't date that girl. Mainly. That one. They save me a lot. And, like, thank God. And anyone that they've said that about... There's never been a single person... That they've been wrong about."

Spiritual Guidance Framework:

• Primary Source: Holy Spirit as main guide
• Community Confirmation: Trusted advisors providing confirmation and correction
• Protective Wisdom: Accountability preventing major mistakes
• Relationship Guidance: Spiritual counsel on personal decisions
• Perfect Track Record: Validated wisdom through consistent accuracy

Racial Identity vs. God-Given Identity

Black Family Ministry Experience:

"So the family... Yeah, basically everyone that... Was involved in this trip this weekend was black... And I had such good conversations with them about how... They were like... We were talking about why did the... Why did black America fall into chaos and hell?"

Faithful Analysis:

"And it was refreshing talking to a bunch of deeply faithful people about it. They were like... Because they rug-pulled God out of it. Yeah. And, of course, there's a bunch of policies that incentivize noticing non-two-parent households."

Identity Priority Problems:

"But I've had some very difficult times talking to some black friends who I realized are much more... They're very attached to their racial identities more than they are their God-given identities."

Peter's Experience with Black Believers:

"Also, some of the most articulate believers I've ever met are black believers because there was... who have overcome a lot of the... the guilt that's been thrown at them. So they've had to think it through."

Community Pressure Recognition:

"Because they get so much attack from their internal communities about, like, you, like... As well as, like, oh, it's a white man's religion."

Identity Framework:

• God-Given vs. Racial: Primary identity in Christ versus ethnic identity
• Spiritual Persecution: Black Christians facing community pressure
• Articulate Faith: Persecution producing thoughtful believers
• Cultural Resistance: Racial identity competing with Christian identity
• Policy Analysis: Governmental destruction of family structures

Character vs. Gifting in Ministry

Peter's Ministry Experience:

"I have run with many of those incredibly anointed miraculously wherever they walk. Miracles happen, blah, blah, blah. Like I said, I have operated in that myself."

Character Priority:

"But ultimately also I have seen people not have the character to handle that. To handle it. And then they fall and they take thousands of people with them, right? Because they screw up somewhere."

Gifts Without Repentance:

"Do they lose the gift if they do Bible? No, a lot of times. A lot of times they don't. Because gifts are given without repentance, right?"

Peter's Philosophy:

"But this is why I tell people I don't care what your gifting is. I just care what your character is."

Character Development:

"That was honestly just practice. I think I just grew in gifting, right? And I just always naturally had a knack for certain gifts, right?"

Peter's Gifting:

"What is your strongest one? It's probably more along prophetic words of knowledge."

Divine Priority:

"He only cares about what our character is. Are we loving people? Are we treating other people? Are we doing that? Right? That's all way more important to the Lord than anything else."

Character vs. Gifting Principles:

• Gifts Are Permanent: Spiritual gifts don't disappear due to character issues
• Character Determines Impact: Personal integrity determines ministry fruit
• Love as Priority: God values character over supernatural ability
• Failure Consequences: Character failures affecting thousands of followers
• Growth Through Practice: Gifts can be developed through use
• Biblical Foundation: Gifts without repentance principle from Scripture

Dangerous Ministry Opportunities and Humility

Large Ministry Invitation:

"I could have been legitimately one of those guys... I was asked by a very large ministry to do that."

Strategic Positioning:

"Because I was a Asian with 200 degrees who worked on Wall Street... They're out there but they're not known in the U.S., right? They're known in Asia."

Media Experience:

"But yeah, I was on Christian TV. I was on big pulpits, right? I did it for a few months and then I'm like, yeah, I can't do this anymore."

Walking Away:

"And so it was but I was a decent teacher, too, right? So I spoke for like six months and then they were like you're done. I'm like, okay. I don't want to do this anymore. It just felt weird."

Current Calling:

"Yeah, I've been walking to Ecclesia now since 2018 doing basically covert assignments. That's the rest of my life."

Humility in Ministry:

• Platform Rejection: Turning down large ministry opportunities
• Strategic Demographics: Recognition of being used for representation
• Spiritual Discomfort: Sensing wrongness in celebrity ministry model
• Covert Assignments: Preferring behind-the-scenes kingdom work
• Lifetime Commitment: Long-term vision for authentic ministry

Spiritual Warfare and Life Preservation

Israeli Sniper Encounter:

"There have been times where the Holy Spirit has saved my life. Where people or things were trying to kill me... They were Israeli snipers. The soldier kept us. move your hand very slowly. We have four snipers on you and your entire team."

Divine Protection:

"We were at Joseph's Tomb, right? Which was... We didn't... We kind of knew, but we didn't know because we didn't know the 1A was off limits."

Tourist Strategy:

"And we're like, we're tourists. Look, we're from Singapore... And we're from the U.S."

Asian Advantage:

"That's the funny thing about being Asian. People don't expect you to be, like..."

African Exception:

"Unless you're in Africa. They absolutely hate Asians... Because mainly... The Japanese have basically raped all the African nations from Anatolia."

Spiritual Protection Principles:

• Divine Intervention: Holy Spirit providing supernatural protection
• Strategic Ignorance: Sometimes protection through apparent naivety
• Cultural Assumptions: Ethnic appearance affecting perception
• Geographic Awareness: Different cultural contexts requiring wisdom
• Mission Risks: Spiritual assignments involving physical danger

Holy Spirit Dependence and Abiding

Life Dependence:

"Without the Holy Spirit, I would not be alive. Like, literally, I would not be alive."

Abiding vs. Trusting:

"How do you abide? It's very hard. It's not easy. What does that mean? Abide?... Abide is the word trust... I guess trust implies an emotional thing. Abiding is also adding actions to that, right?"

Rest and Checking:

"And you always check in with the Lord, but you strive to enter His rest, and then the rest of the time you just abide, right? Unless God tells you otherwise."

Accountability Check-ins:

"You check in with your people you hold accountable like, am I still on track? And then they'll tell me straight up. You're striving or no, just wait."

LA Confirmation:

"And then as soon as I got to L.A., he started opening these doors just to favor it, where it's like, okay, this is my sign to you that you heard it quickly."

Abiding Framework:

• Life Dependence: Recognition of total reliance on Holy Spirit
• Action-Based Trust: Abiding involving both faith and corresponding actions
• Divine Rest: Striving to enter God's rest rather than human striving
• Regular Check-ins: Ongoing spiritual accountability and course correction
• Confirmatory Signs: Divine confirmation through opened doors and favor

Gary's Spiritual Development and Calling Recognition

Following Anointed People:

"So yeah, I think I'm gonna follow around some anointed people."

Peter's Counsel:

"Observe them, learn what you can, and then draw your own conclusions and go as the spirit leads you."

Evangelism Calling:

"I feel called to help make disciples and I think one of the missing areas of evangelism is just helping people recognize that the supernatural is not like a metaphorical medieval idiot mythology stuff."

Supernatural Recognition:

"And so it's like not even optional... It's not optional to understand You can choose not to do it, but it's like going to war with one arm tied behind your back or two arms."

Discipleship Strategy:

• Observation Learning: Watching anointed individuals to understand ministry
• Supernatural Evangelism: Helping people recognize reality of supernatural
• Spiritual Warfare: Understanding supernatural as essential for effective ministry
• Personal Discernment: Drawing own conclusions under Holy Spirit guidance

Key Quotes and Memorable Exchanges

On Miraculous Ministry

"Miracles are real. I still experience them regularly. But I run with a very... They're super faithful? We're kind of operating the way that Frank Biola talks about. The house-church vibe?" - Peter

On Faith and Miracles

"It's all activated by faith. Yeah, it is. That's the thing that people don't realize." - Peter

On Ecclesia

"If you want to call it that, it's basically Ecclesia, God's government on Earth. Right. So when you are operating in that, then God's power shows up too." - Peter

On Ministry Dangers

"Always keep a low profile. It's the safest way, always." - Peter

On Character vs. Gifting

"But this is why I tell people I don't care what your gifting is. I just care what your character is." - Peter

On Divine Priorities

"He only cares about what our character is. Are we loving people? Are we treating other people? Are we doing that? Right? That's all way more important to the Lord than anything else." - Peter

On Holy Spirit Dependence

"Without the Holy Spirit, I would not be alive. Like, literally, I would not be alive." - Peter

On Supernatural Evangelism

"I feel called to help make disciples and I think one of the missing areas of evangelism is just helping people recognize that the supernatural is not like a metaphorical medieval idiot mythology stuff." - Gary

On Spiritual Warfare

"It's not optional to understand You can choose not to do it, but it's like going to war with one arm tied behind your back or two arms." - Gary

Spiritual and Philosophical Insights

Ecclesia vs. Church Institution

Peter demonstrates the difference between operating under divine government (Ecclesia) versus traditional church structures, with supernatural power being connected to proper spiritual authority and mission-oriented focus.

Character as Ultimate Test

The conversation reveals that while spiritual gifts are permanent and can be developed, character determines the ultimate impact and safety of ministry, with God prioritizing love and integrity over supernatural ability.

Faith as Activation Mechanism

Both men recognize that faith serves as the activating factor for miraculous ministry, with cultural contexts affecting the level of faith and expectation for supernatural intervention.

Supernatural as Essential

Gary's recognition that the supernatural is "not optional" for effective ministry represents a significant shift from intellectual Christianity to power-based discipleship.

Identity Hierarchy

The discussion of racial identity versus God-given identity reveals the importance of primary identity in Christ over ethnic or cultural identities, particularly for effective ministry in diverse contexts.

Conclusion

This conversation provides valuable insight into authentic supernatural ministry operating through proper spiritual structure (Ecclesia) rather than traditional church formats. Peter's extensive experience with miraculous ministry, combined with his emphasis on character over gifting, offers a mature framework for understanding how God moves through submitted vessels while protecting them from the dangers of spiritual pride and celebrity culture.

The dialogue demonstrates Gary's continued spiritual development and recognition of his calling to help others understand the reality of the supernatural realm. Peter's counsel to observe, learn, and follow the Spirit's leading provides practical guidance for someone seeking to understand authentic ministry.

Most significantly, the conversation reveals the critical importance of accountability structures, character development, and maintaining humility while operating in supernatural gifts. Peter's willingness to walk away from large ministry platforms in favor of "covert assignments" exemplifies the narrow path of authentic discipleship over religious celebrity.

The discussion of Ecclesia (God's government on Earth) versus traditional church structures provides important insight into how supernatural ministry functions most effectively under divine authority rather than human religious systems.