2025-08-04: Gary Sheng & Alex Park - Denominational Exploration and Christian Ontology

Date: August 4, 2025
Participants: Gary Sheng (@gary-sheng.md), Alex Park (@alex-park.md)
Type: Spiritual Fellowship and Denominational Exploration Discussion
Context: Deep conversation about church exploration, denominational differences, trans-denominational Christianity, and the balance between intellectual exploration and practical embodiment of faith

Executive Summary

This conversation represents a pivotal discussion between two Christian seekers navigating the complex landscape of denominational choice, spiritual exploration, and practical embodiment of faith. Gary shares his recent experiences visiting Orthodox churches and his growing appreciation for liturgical tradition, while Alex reflects on his journey from pantheistic exploration to Christian commitment. Both discuss the concept of "Christofuturism" as a trans-denominational community of earnest seekers, the role of technology in modern spiritual exploration, and their transition from an exploratory phase to one focused on practical application and embodiment of Christian principles.

Key Themes & Insights

1. Denominational Exploration and Orthodox Experience

Gary's Orthodox Awakening:

Gary: "I had my first Orthodox experiences this week, bro. Very cool. Yeah, I went to a St. Sophia this week, today... I went to like a pretty dope monastery. That's like an hour from the St. Sophia one, like earlier in the week. Yeah, and I think there's just something really sacred and beautiful about preserving that tradition from all those years, right?"

Limitations of Sola Scriptura:

Gary: "I'm losing... I'm seeing the limitations of sola scriptura. Because I think there's a lot that... I would not be surprised if God revealed a lot through the traditions and the hymns and, you know, rituals and stuff. That if you just rely on sola scriptura, it's so reliant on your own understanding, right?"

Orthodox Community Perspective:

Gary: "Orthodox people bash it, right? I was at a potluck with a bunch of Orthodox people at the St. Sophia's Church near Austin. And they were just talking about how they were glad to have left their... how they explored it and they were like, oh, we saw the error in that ways. I see a lot of men gravitating toward it."

2. Alex's Spiritual Journey Evolution

From Pantheism to Christianity:

Alex: "Most recent chapter was like, I kind of, I don't know if the word is like pantheist, but like, I had this thesis around like, okay, I want to experience, experience, and immerse myself and expose myself to, like, as many and as many of the different traditions as possible. Buddhism, the Christian, indigenous, you know, and more."

Spiritual Teacher Guidance:

Alex: "Somewhere along the road... I met a number of like, spiritual, you know, high spiritual teachers and masters. And there was like this kind of wisdom and false prescription that I received... It's almost like, you know, it's good that you're exploring the many paths, you know, but like, pick one, you know, and go deep."

Christic Framework Development:

Alex: "I arrived at two places, very similar, like, one was, like, Christic integral non-dualism, and the other one was Christic hierarchical non-dualism, and I arrived more on that frame... Christ is, uh, ink, and everything else orders underneath Christ."

3. Trans-Denominational Christianity and Christofuturism

Community of Seekers Concept:

Gary: "What is the Christofuturist community if it's not a denomination, right? Maybe it's a community of seekers that want to understand but also embody and are, some common characteristics might be they share journal entries on their journey, right? And share what questions they're asking."

Meta-Level Process Recognition:

Gary: "What are we, what are you and I both kind of doing at the meta level by kind of exploring these different churches and talking to these people, reading these different books? You know, what are we doing, right?... it's like a meta process that, you know, I'm just, I'm just sharing with you."

Scientific Approach to Faith:

Gary: "Kind of similar to how scientists talk about it, like, science should be a humble process of theorizing and disproving things and, like, trying to, like, just have a better grasp of the world, but it's, like, the process that you're identifying with, and less so, like, these tenuous truth claims, right?"

4. The Role of Technology and Internet in Spiritual Exploration

Digital Age Opportunities:

Gary: "I think it's never been easier to have honest conversations about the differences between the denominations... I think there's almost no way that, I'm sure other people are having conversations like this. I'm sure a much smaller percentage of people would be having this conversation if not for the internet, right?"

Divine Neural Network Metaphor:

Gary: "We're all nodes in God's divine neural net. Like, someone that's, someone that is part of a denomination with a lot of falsehoods might lead you to God. That's, wow, like, what an interesting thing."

5. Intellectual vs. Embodiment Balance

Alex's Recognition of Need for Embodiment:

Alex: "I love learning, but I'm also, like, embodiment time, you know... I still got a lot of room to grow, you know... there is an element of, like, being in the wilderness that I'm navigating right now... to, like, hold steadfast and, like, build that kind of, like, muscle and that discipline."

Gary's Self-Assessment on Over-Intellectualizing:

Gary: "I would say I'm I'm close to done with. A real meaningful. Explore truth seeking exploratory chapter... Few hours a week versus half of my week, which is kind of what it's been like. It's been addictive and, you know, nourishing. But also, but also like if... you're not producing extra intellectual fruits... you're just basically masturbating."

Transition to Application:

Alex: "At some point it's really nice to have a framework that you can delegate some of that to that's higher from some higher knowledge or higher wisdom, a higher source and that you can trust it and align your life to that and speak to that."

6. Christian Ontology and Working Relationships

Gary's Evolved Perspective on Partnerships:

Gary: "I don't think that I can work closely with someone that's not a Christian. That has, and maybe I'm making up a word, a plot, has the same, has the minimum sufficient overlap of ontology with me."

Sabbath and Rest Perspective:

Gary: "How an atheist deals with, how the atheist thinks about rest is very different, is typically very different from how someone that, like, for example, while I was at dinner, I talked about the Sabbath. And how Lael likely does not respect, hasn't respected the Sabbath probably since he was a baby."

Heart Discernment:

Gary: "I think God gives you a lot more sensitivity to whether someone else has God's heart. If you have really developed your heart for God, you have, you have, you've been regularly doing what you can to be receiving God's love, right?"

7. Practical Implications and Future Direction

Gary's Strategic Shift:

Gary: "What is likely going to happen for me is I work with someone that is what a non-believer would call a boring nerd. But as a nerd that loves God more and more every day, my conversations about God with him are the only kinds of conversations I want to have, really."

Alex's Framework for Decision-Making:

Alex: "Processing a lot of my decisions, personal, professional, etc. through through that. Yeah, I think it's really helpful. It's it seems more satisfying and more effective to me, not always more comfortable, I will say, but more perhaps more structurally integrous than it's kind of just like almost like pure relativism, pluralism."

Warning Against New Age Pitfalls:

Gary: "My friend that I randomly or not so randomly had the impulse to say let's catch up when we caught up. She was like, I got raped by the main funder of the Austin New Age community that won't that won't excommunicate him because they want to have more sex parties, right?"

Personal Development Insights

Gary's Evolution

• Orthodox Appreciation: Growing attraction to liturgical tradition and recognition of sola scriptura limitations
• Partnership Selectivity: Clear preference for working with committed Christians who share fundamental ontology
• Intellectual Transition: Moving from exploration-heavy phase to application and embodiment
• Community Vision: Developing concept of trans-denominational Christian fellowship focused on earnest seeking

Alex's Journey

• Spiritual Maturation: Transition from pantheistic exploration to committed Christian framework
• Embodiment Focus: Recognition of need to move from learning to practicing and applying faith
• Decision Framework: Using Christian principles as guide for personal and professional choices
• Integration Wisdom: Balancing appreciation for other traditions with Christian commitment

Strategic Outcomes

Immediate Plans

• Gary planning potential LA visit to attend Orthodox or Catholic services with Alex
• Both transitioning from heavy exploration to practical application of faith
• Continued fellowship and mutual encouragement in spiritual growth
• Exploration of how to help others avoid New Age pitfalls

Long-term Vision

• Development of "Christofuturist" community concept for trans-denominational seekers
• Integration of technology with spiritual exploration in healthy ways
• Focus on working partnerships aligned with Christian ontology
• Emphasis on embodiment over endless intellectual exploration

Key Quotes and Wisdom

On Denominational Choice:

Alex: "Am I to, like, eventually commit to one church, you know, and, like, get really immersed in that. Or am I kind of part of, like, a slightly different, you know, archetype... this, like, kind of more emergent thing that we're, like, kind of exploring."

On Spiritual Seeking:

Gary: "That's rarer than I would like it to be. And I think we can do things to make it less rare... if we share a certain love of earnestly sense making around all this stuff."

On Framework Benefits:

Alex: "It seems more satisfying and more effective to me, not always more comfortable, I will say, but more perhaps more structurally integrous than it's kind of just like almost like pure relativism, pluralism."

On Intellectual Humility:

Alex: "How much of what we're doing is like new or unique to this moment in time? Versus, yeah, how much of it is like, bruh, like, we've spilled like 70,000 pages about this in the 70s, you know?"

On Divine Guidance:

Gary: "I think God in a way that then you find your best possible route that honors God. And gets you closer to the truth. You know, it's just, it's a beautiful thing."

On Spiritual Adventuring:

Alex: "You have been, like, be, yes, be a spiritual adventurer, explorer, tourist for a while, eventually, like, settle down somewhere, build a home, you know, and like, and, and go deep in that."

This conversation represents a mature dialogue between two spiritual seekers who are transitioning from exploration to embodiment, while maintaining openness to trans-denominational fellowship and the role of technology in modern spiritual seeking.