Spiritual Exploration and Denominational Critique Conversation

Date: August 15, 2025
Participants: Gary Sheng, Tyler Tran
Location: Remote call
Duration: ~45 minutes
Context: Wide-ranging philosophical conversation covering Gary's spiritual development, institutional religion critique, geopolitical commentary, and Tyler's Catholic background and evolved religious perspectives

Executive Summary

This profound conversation captures Gary Sheng during his forced pause in Austin, Texas, following delays in his Tulsa scientist opportunity, and reveals Tyler Tran's deep Catholic background and evolved philosophical perspective on organized religion. The dialogue explores themes of denominational limitations, spiritual authenticity, geopolitical observations regarding Israel/Palestine, Gary's open-source Christianity vision, and both participants' journeys away from institutional religious frameworks toward more personal faith relationships. Tyler emerges as both philosophical sparring partner and spiritual encourager during Gary's period of reflection and transition.

Key Themes and Discussions

Gary's Current Transition and Spiritual Reading

Forced Vacation and Spiritual Focus:

"My buddy Dallas, who was my roommate. For several months. His wife from New York moved to Austin. So I just gave up the place because I was planning to put the Tulsa to work with this inventor guy, but that's being a little bit delayed, so I'm just an Austin, just kind of chilling."

"Reading books about God."

Spiritual Growth Hesitation:

"So it's cool. It's kind of like a forced vacation in a way."

Transition Context:

• Living situation change in Austin due to roommate's wife arrival
• Tulsa scientist opportunity delayed due to HR/payroll setup issues
• Using delay for spiritual reading and reflection
• Experiencing this as divinely orchestrated pause

Denominational Critique and Evangelical Rejection

Tyler's Evangelical Definition:

"Wasps, christian. Talks about. Yes, is a denomination, talks about human value, but secretly they're all kind of racist."

Gary's Strong Anti-Evangelical Stance:

"Well, even locals are pro genocide, so definitely not evangelical. It's hard for me to."

Israel/Palestine Theological Critique:

"I mean, they believe that the nation state of Israel. Is in the bible. Is the Israel in the Bible. Sorry? The nation state of Israel today. The Israel in the Bible. Which is not true. It's just a giant deception from the Jews."

Denominational Skepticism Framework:

• Evangelical Rejection: Strong opposition to Christian Zionist theology
• Geopolitical Awareness: Understanding denomination's political implications
• Theological Accuracy: Distinguishing biblical Israel from modern nation-state
• Systemic Critique: Recognizing broader denominational problems

Tyler's Comprehensive Religious Critique

Denominational Proliferation Problem:

"Dude, I was talking. Talking about this the other day. It's like there's so many down, there's, like thousands. Tens of thousands of them. There's no way anyone is convinced with any amount of credibility their denomination is the right way to go."

Biblical Interpretation Corruption:

"The message of God. And the Bible has been perverted so many times that no one even knows what it is anymore. There's, like, so many interpretations of it. Lets so many weird ones where you're just perverting God. To get what you want out of this world."

Patriarchal Denomination Critique:

"The one passage that gets me so much. Is the wife should submit to the husband. And all that shit that produced so many denominations where it's super patriarchal."

"There's literally societies being erected right now where women do not have the right to vote. They can't hold."

Religious Corruption Framework:

• Proliferation Problem: Too many denominations to claim credibility
• Interpretation Perversion: Bible twisted to serve human agendas
• Patriarchal Abuse: Gender submission teachings creating oppressive systems
• Power Dynamics: Religion used to justify systemic inequality

Gary's Open Source Christianity Vision

Individual Interpretation Approach:

"But everyone just kind of has to. Almost just have faith that whatever they want to go with is worth sticking to. I think one of the worst things to do is just be confused the whole time while wanting, almost feeling like you need to. Well, I think for people like me, I actually kind of am just trying to make my own interpretation."

Divine Will Seeking Outside Institutions:

"Not that I'm saying, like, oh, I can bend. God's plan to my interpretation. I'm actually just trying to figure out what God wants outside of the existing interpretations, you know what I'm saying?"

Software Development Metaphor:

"What if the future of Christianity is more so like a set of components? Like we have open source libraries."

Linux and Android Open Source Model:

"And Linux has been this open source. Like code base. For bare bones operating systems. Or forever. And really, Macs are forks of Linux. The macOS. And then Android. I forget if it started open source or got open source later. But Android is like the open source phone os, right?"

Open Source Christianity Framework:

• Component-Based Belief: Modular approach to theological concepts
• Fork-Friendly: Ability to branch off when disagreeing with direction
• Battle-Tested Elements: Community validation of individual belief components
• Transparent Development: Open dialogue and critique of belief systems

Tyler's Spiritual Humility Philosophy

Divine Mystery Acceptance:

"There's also humility in acknowledging that we will never know what God wants. We can't put ourselves into understanding of that."

Religious Perversion Identification:

"Where religion gets perverted is that we say that we know what God wants and this is it. This is how we should do it. And then you lead people into it."

Human Filter Problem:

"Every established religion, we're the filter. Right where the function. Anything that passes through us as humans gets. Becomes disgusting."

Spiritual Humility Framework:

• Divine Incomprehensibility: Accepting limits of human understanding
• Certainty Critique: Opposing claims of definitive divine knowledge
• Human Corruption: Recognizing inevitable distortion through human institutions
• Filter Recognition: Understanding how humanity corrupts divine message

Geopolitical and Historical Analysis

Animal Farm Analogy to Israel:

"This is like this. You run animal farm, right? Dude, this is like the. Turn into real life almost instantly, right in front of you. It's like the people who have been the most vocal about their own genocidal experience. One generation ago. Is now the pigs themselves."

Power Corruption Cycle:

"Yeah, but, dude, more of the story is that the pigs were pushing out the farmers because they didn't want to be oppressed anymore, and they themselves became the oppressors."

Anti-Semitism as Manufactured Protection:

"And it's become. Dude, it's such a thing. Where I actually mentioned this a long time ago. Where the word anti Semitic is the last thing you want to be called."

Systemic Control Analysis:

"They literally called it a disease. Right? They created a new disease. If you criticize genocide people. You have a disease."

Geopolitical Analysis Framework:

• Power Cycle Recognition: Oppressed becoming oppressors
• Historical Irony: Holocaust survivors perpetrating genocide
• Linguistic Control: "Anti-Semitic" as conversation-ending weapon
• Systematic Immunity: Creating untouchable status through victimhood narrative

Gary's Spiritual Mentor Relationship and Development

Tyler as Spiritual Mentor:

"Yes, and this is why I always try to make sure to find some time with. My spiritual mentor, Tyler, every so often to keep me grounded."

Tyler's Catholic Journey:

"Catholic. Gone through so many phases of interpretation of this religion that I was born into. And then I was raised Catholic. I went to elementary school, Catholic middle school, Catholic high school and college."

Comprehensive Catholic Background:

"Yeah. Auto server. I had a Catholic wedding. As well the day before out of the one I."

Spiritual Friendship Value:

"Truly enjoy having these conversations with you because I see that. I literally see that you are making your way through it yourself."

Mentor Relationship Framework:

• Grounding Function: Tyler provides stability during Gary's exploration
• Institutional Experience: Tyler's comprehensive Catholic background offers perspective
• Journey Witnessing: Tyler appreciates watching Gary's authentic spiritual development
• Mutual Exploration: Both participants learning through dialogue

Tribal Psychology and Human Programming

Survival-Based Tribalism:

"Tribal. It goes back to our initial programming. We are programmed to prefer to be part of a tribe for survival. Think about all the people our survival filter, right? People who didn't want to be part of a tribal tribe died out."

Binary Thinking Patterns:

"People love to follow. People love to be part of something. Right or left, blue or red, this or that. It's so binary. You're this again. We are literally programmed to be binary."

Geographic Identity Formation:

"Same thing here. How about this? I grew up in Texas. So I want to go to Texas to school. And whatever the school represents and believes in, the values and that, that's going to be my values."

Tribal Psychology Framework:

• Evolutionary Programming: Survival advantage of group membership
• Binary Preference: Natural tendency toward either/or thinking
• Identity Adoption: Taking on group characteristics without examination
• Geographic Influence: Location determining belief systems

Open Source Software as Religious Model

Battle-Tested Components Concept:

"What if the future of Christianity is more so like a set of components? Like we have open source libraries."

GitHub Fork Model for Belief:

"You disagree with a direction that a particular component is going. You can just clone that and be like, okay, for people that agree with this similar thing, but it's going to be different."

Modular Worldview Assembly:

"So people may disagree about what happens after they die. Great. They're going to be a whole module about. Different people are like, okay. Oh, this. Because that's what people are doing anyways, Tyler."

Current Reality Recognition:

"Often what people really are doing. Is like, oh, let me just pick a team."

Software Religion Framework:

• Component Modularity: Separable belief elements for individual assembly
• Version Control: Ability to track and merge belief evolution
• Community Testing: Crowd-sourced validation of belief components
• Fork Freedom: Liberty to diverge when disagreeing with direction

Tyler's Current Life Context and Professional Updates

NBA Leadership Transition:

"Good enough. Yes. My head of finance is leaving. He's going to give in his notice. Maybe today or Monday, I'm not sure."

Honeymoon and Career Timing:

"It's bad timing because I'm actually going away on my honeymoon on Monday to Tanzania for two weeks, so I can't even maneuver."

Professional Satisfaction Assessment:

"Anyway. Yeah. Generally, I'm not really enjoying the place, but it's okay. It's stable. But does it inspire me? Absolutely not."

Career Context Framework:

• Leadership Opportunity: Potential promotion due to manager departure
• Timing Challenges: Honeymoon conflicting with career transition
• Inspiration Gap: Stable but unfulfilling professional situation
• Transition Readiness: Open to considering next career moves

The Scientist Relationship Analysis

Character Assessment and Moral Issues:

"Well, my buddy Marcus's theory is that Elon worships a powerful satanic force that allows him to get things done. It ultimately won't pay off in the end. Because it's like borrowing life force. From the future."

Personal Relationship Patterns:

"I have not had this particular conversation. I'm like, you're not really doing that well right now. Yes. You're not tweeting random anime chicks. Having your current wife babysit. Your bastard kids is, like, so wild."

Spiritual Grounding and Character Development:

"So I feel like God basically grounded me. In austin. I'm meeting some really good Christians that embody a good heart, I think, that are successful in business."

Past Pattern Recognition:

"Because, again, I think I was just really thirsty to work with someone that was both very Spartan and was coming into some more money."

Character Discernment Framework:

• Spiritual Force Analysis: Understanding different spiritual energies in success
• Moral Consistency: Evaluating alignment between values and behavior
• Divine Intervention: Recognizing God's protective guidance away from harmful associations
• Validation Addiction: Identifying thirst for high-status connections

Tyler's Encouragement and Spiritual Perspective

Newborn Eyes Appreciation:

"Great. It's kind of refreshing in a way. It's like seeing the world in the newborn's eyes, because then you start actually looking at. Things you never looked at before."

Religious Disdain vs. God Relationship:

"It's like that. When you are exploring this religion that I have such a growing disdain for because it got so perverted. But I can't let that affect my relations hip with God."

Human vs. Divine Distinction:

"That's different. That's just human shit. That's human perversions of God, and it's not God. Himself. It's stupid, man."

Spiritual Light Recognition:

"No, man. I'm glad you found something that's like a guiding light for you as you're going through. It's really noisy. Young adult life that you're going through, and we're all going through it."

Encouragement Framework:

• Fresh Perspective Value: Appreciating beginner's mind in spiritual exploration
• Institution vs. God Separation: Distinguishing human corruption from divine reality
• Guidance Appreciation: Recognizing importance of spiritual direction during transition
• Mutual Journey Recognition: Acknowledging shared spiritual development process

Orthodox Christianity vs. Modern Technology

Monastic Life as Opposite of Social Media:

"Something like Orthodox Christianity. Is like the opposite of scrolling on social media. Like being a monk. At an Orthodox monastery. Is like the opposite, right?"

Path Forward for Modern Society:

"And so. This is, like, the ultimate fun thing for me. And it's not just fun, it's meaningful because just figure out what is a path. That more people can follow. That doesn't completely ignore modern society and the bounties of it."

Technology-Spirituality Integration:

"While also not being essentially possessed by algorithms. Possessed by. Friends. I'm such a community guy."

Modern Monasticism Framework:

• Digital Opposite: Contemplative practice as antidote to algorithmic consumption
• Integration Challenge: Maintaining spiritual depth while engaging modernity
• Community Value: Balancing digital connection with authentic relationship
• Path Creation: Developing sustainable spiritual practice for modern context

Documentation and Influence Development

Systematic Knowledge Sharing:

"One of the things I love, because I see it as so valuable, is good documentation. There's a number of things. One is people want to follow people."

Shepherd vs. Cult Leader Distinction:

"And so what makes someone worth following? I don't mean as a cult leader. I mean, like, as a shepherd."

Centralized Resource Vision:

"How can I, instead of just them texting me random shit? Could I point them to, like, a central source? Of stuff that I and people I align with. Have curated."

Open Source Denomination Concept:

"A denomination that's not a denomination. Right, because it's so open source. And transparent and willing to evolve."

Influence Framework:

• Documentation Value: Systematic approach to sharing wisdom
• Servant Leadership: Shepherding rather than dominating followers
• Resource Centralization: Creating accessible wisdom repositories
• Transparent Evolution: Open development of belief systems

Future Vision and Software Religion Metaphor

Bug Report System for Beliefs:

"You know how in code, where someone can file a bug? On a piece of code. And then you can show that you merged the change."

Unity Skepticism:

"I don't think that we will ever unite. A huge percentage of people behind anything like New."

Historical Pattern Recognition:

"Maybe you can unite them for a very short period of time. But anything that has united people in the history of our humanity has fallen apart. Time. Is time to prevent it. From staying. Any ideology, if you think about it."

Software Maintenance Analogy:

"Can you? Software as standalone cannot last for the test of time. You always have to debug it."

Future Religion Framework:

• Continuous Integration: Belief systems requiring ongoing maintenance and updates
• Community Debugging: Collaborative identification and fixing of belief errors
• Version Control: Tracking evolution and changes in belief systems
• Decentralized Development: Multiple contributors to spiritual wisdom

Personal Revelations and Transformative Insights

Gary's Homework and Direction

Transformative Conversation Recognition:

"Yeah, well. This has been a really transformative conversation because I think you just gave me some homework for today."

Software-Religion Intersection:

"To think more about the intersection of what has been amazing about software."

Direction Confirmation:

"I mean, it was kind of brewing in my head, but you just gave me confirmation that I should do this."

Tyler's Friendship Appreciation

Regular Contact Commitment:

"Listen always we don't talk enough and then that's on me. We definitely will reach out to you more."

DC Memory:

"I think about that time we hung out randomly in D.C. like that walk, it's just really weirdly. Fun."

Visit Planning:

"Let me know your moving time. I would love to come again. Come hang out with you."

Key Quotes and Memorable Exchanges

On Denominational Problems:

"There's so many down, there's, like thousands. Tens of thousands of them. There's no way anyone is convinced with any amount of credibility their denomination is the right way to go."

On Religious Corruption:

"Every established religion, we're the filter. Right where the function. Anything that passes through us as humans gets. Becomes disgusting."

On Spiritual Humility:

"There's also humility in acknowledging that we will never know what God wants. We can't put ourselves into understanding of that."

On Gary's Journey:

"It's kind of refreshing in a way. It's like seeing the world in the newborn's eyes, because then you start actually looking at. Things you never looked at before."

On Open Source Religion:

"What if the future of Christianity is more so like a set of components? Like we have open source libraries."

On Tribal Programming:

"We are literally programmed to be binary. Or to be wanting to be part of a group. Fraternities, clubs. Yeah. Community. We want to be part of something."

On Historical Patterns:

"Maybe you can unite them for a very short period of time. But anything that has united people in the history of our humanity has fallen apart."

On Software Maintenance:

"Software as standalone cannot last for the test of time. You always have to debug it."

Conclusion

This conversation reveals a profound philosophical and spiritual dialogue between two friends at different stages of their religious journeys. Tyler, with his comprehensive Catholic background, serves as both critic of institutional religion and encourager of Gary's authentic spiritual exploration. Gary emerges with a vision for "open source Christianity" that applies software development principles to belief system development and maintenance.

The dialogue demonstrates how meaningful friendships can provide both intellectual stimulation and spiritual encouragement during periods of transition and growth. Tyler's combination of religious experience, philosophical sophistication, and honest critique creates a safe space for Gary to explore bold new approaches to faith and community.

Most significantly, the conversation catalyzes Gary's vision for a new approach to Christian community that maintains theological flexibility while preserving spiritual depth. The open source metaphor provides a framework for belief systems that can evolve, be debugged, and serve diverse communities without the rigid hierarchies that both participants critique in traditional denominations.

The exchange concludes with both friends committed to maintaining more regular contact and Gary energized with new direction for his spiritual and intellectual development. Their friendship exemplifies how honest dialogue about complex spiritual topics can generate innovative approaches to ancient questions about faith, community, and divine relationship.