2025-08-07 Gary Sheng & Tim Dort-Golts: Discipleship Infrastructure Movement Vision

Meeting Context

• Setting: Gary on a walk (requesting audio quality checks), Tim working out (doing pull-ups)
• Tone: Breakthrough strategic vision conversation with spiritual depth
• Key Development: Major conceptual breakthrough around "discipleship infrastructure" as life's work

Major Topics Discussed

1. Human Judgment vs AI in Movement Building

Critical Role of Human Decision-Making: Gary emphasized human necessity in complex strategic decisions

"Human judgment is so critical. Like, think about the situation, Tim. Like, I'm talking to this guy who's super giga-brain. We could go a lot of ways with whatever artifacts we produce. And there's so many different design decisions required for building a movement."

AI as Summarization Tool: Clear delineation of AI's supportive role

"I think AI can do really great summarization work. It can see patterns across, like certain kinds of patterns, right? Across different conversations. And it's kind of like what its job is. To look across documents and shit, right? Which is hard for a human to do on their own."

Technology-Human Integration: Understanding movements as human-technology systems

"Which is what a movement is. It's just technology plus humans doing stuff. And so I have zero fear about whether humans are necessary to... You know, if the movement is necessary."

2. Alpha Schools Organizational Dysfunction Analysis

Dilbert Comic Strip Reality: Gary's assessment of corporate absurdity

"The fact that if you email your human manager, then the human manager says, Bro, just talk to the AI manager. That's literally what they would say. That's literally what they said."

Joe Liemandt as Overfunded Idiot: Fundamental critique of capitalist success metrics

"Joe's like an overfunded idiot. He's won, in a lot of ways, the game of capitalism. But that's not because... It's simply mostly because capitalism was designed by people like him. That really tried to strip people into very basic numbers."

Class Rank System Replication: Understanding the spiritual poverty of ranking systems

"Class rank demoralizes basically everyone except the top ranked people. And even the top ranked people, they have a false sense of security about... Oh, because I succeeded in school, I got a top rank in school. I must be super prepared for the real world."

WorkSmart Gaming Culture: Easy manipulation of productivity metrics

"This shit apparently is so easy to game. You have WorkSmart on the whole time. And so basically... You literally do nothing except sit in front of your computer... To get your rank up."

3. Slave Mentality Analysis and Spiritual Warfare

Factory Worker Treatment in 2025: Fundamental misunderstanding of human potential

"Treating humans like factory workers... In 2025... Is the stupidest fucking thing. What you want to do is have a team where everyone is weirdly amazing at their way of contributing."

Ecosystem vs Slave Ship Leadership: Different approaches to human organization

"It requires... Someone that's really tapped into the community. And what feeds different people... Keeps them going. Like a very ecosystem mindset. And... It's very different from running a slave ship. Running a cotton field. When you have a bunch of slaves."

Mass Hiring as Warning Sign: Tim's insight about leadership philosophy

"Hiring en masse is actually a total telltale sign of what the leader is going to be like. There's no sane person who would understand that... He could integrate 100 people well into the ecosystem."

Replaceable Work Units Culture: Spiritual assessment of dehumanizing systems

"And if your philosophy is treating individuals as like... Replaceable work units. And so you as Arthur feel like a replaceable work unit. And you feel like it's your job as a replaceable work unit... To just oversee a bunch of replaceable work units. Then... That's going to be the culture."

4. Billionaire Slave Mentality Recognition

Joe as Highest-Paid Slave: Spiritual discernment about wealth and freedom

"No, he's the most well-paid slave. Wow, that's a good one... Yeah, so it's a slave mentality where nothing is enough. Nothing is enough."

Lael Alexander's Slavery: Even geniuses trapped by need for human validation

"Fucking Leo is still a fucking slave, bro. He's still a fucking slave. Leo is a fucking slave. Because he needs the... He needs the adoration... Of other humans. To... To keep going. Or he thinks he does. When he just needs to feel finally loved by God, bro."

Pride as Insecurity: Understanding the spiritual root of overconfidence

"When people think of pride, they think like... Oh, overconfidence. That's an oxymoron, bro. It's an oxymoron. Because... I think... When people exhibit... Qualities where like... Oh, I... Who are you? Haha, I'm better than you. It's steeded from a deep sense of insecurity."

Divine Love as Only Security: Core spiritual truth about human freedom

"So... When they're pride... When they are... They... When they think that they're... Or when they're... Exhibiting, quote-unquote, overconfidence... They're... Just... Overcompensating for that lack. Right? Of real... Security. That only comes from... Divine love."

5. Freedom Through Divine Connection

Tim's Analysis of True Freedom: Spiritual framework for liberation

"I think the freest person is the one closest to God. And that might actually require letting go of the attachments that we have here to either a certain extent or, for some people, to a very big extent."

Sin as Bondage Mechanism: Understanding spiritual traps

"What makes people stay? Right? What makes people stay? It is the infinite greed. It's basically... It's basically sin. Right? We're almost inclined to say money. To say status, etc. But we really can be boiled down to greed for money. Pride for the status and validation."

Egypt on Steroids: Modern spiritual warfare assessment

"I think it's basically Egypt on fucking steroids, bro. It's like so easy to sin. So easy to sin. And that's why it kind of makes sense to be a monk."

6. Orthodox Christianity and Monastic Calling

Gary's Orthodox Exploration: Recent spiritual experience validation

"I think that's a very valid lifestyle. It's almost like a natural conclusion. If you actually believe in Christianity. Which is, you know, I almost hate to say this. But you almost then wonder, do the other denominations believe in Christianity?"

Monastic Culture Question: Denominational comparison

"Do they believe that they shouldn't be so in the world? Because then I think they'd have more monasteries, right? They'd have more monastic culture."

Discipleship Infrastructure Revelation: Major strategic breakthrough

"But I have this impulse. It's why I've been circling this idea of discipleship infrastructure. Because, you know, you could argue that a monastery is just one kind of discipleship infrastructure. Or like an instance of it."

7. Discipleship Infrastructure Movement Vision

Multi-Denominational Technology: Revolutionary approach to Christian unity

"If you follow what I wrote in the piece, that most or a lot of discipleship infrastructure can be used by all the denominations. Then where I'm at in terms of having good relationships with the different denominations is a really powerful place to be."

Divide and Conquer Recognition: Understanding denominational warfare

"There's just so much temptation for people to pick a team. Right... It's basically divide and conquer, bro. It's like, wow. Simple as fuck."

Denomination as Idol: Spiritual discernment about religious tribalism

"And ironically, you can make an idol of your denomination. No one's going to say that. Wow... But it's true, though. You basically start to worship the way you worship. Think about it. That's exactly what they do. They worship the differences. Not the God."

Funding Strategy: Multi-denominational support model

"Discipleship infrastructure is kind of a genius, like, name. Where I define it as something that can be used by multiple denominations. Because then it's like, oh, of course, multiple denominations would fund it."

8. Technology and Movement Building Philosophy

Crypto as Tools Not Ideology: Spiritual maturity about technology

"I flipped from wanting to make crypto my idol to just seeing it as it is. It's a bunch of tools that can be used... For whatever, right? Just like... Steel, right? Steel. Like a railroad. A railroad can ship concentration camp prisoners, right?"

Techno-Optimist Critique: Understanding technological idolatry

"But you can't make a technology your idol. Which is exactly what, guess what, techno-optimists do... They're basically saying singularity is Jesus. That singularity is going to come and save us."

Tower of Babel Recognition: Spiritual warfare in technology

"Dude, they're literally building Tower of Babel to avoid the flood. That's literally what they're doing. If we can overcome God's design for our death, if we out-innovate God, right? If we outpace what God can do to us, right?"

Human vs Divine Technology: Creating alternatives to godless innovation

"It's either... I mean, they invented the part because I know the Bible is predetermining that Christ has already won. So it's just a matter of us watching the play. But it's just funny because they basically have God and anti-God."

9. International Discipleship Infrastructure Movement

One-World Government Exception: Strategic positioning for global influence

"And guess what, Tim? This is one of the only international associations that people that we align with would be like, Oh, this is a one-world government that we would support. You know what I'm saying? Think about it. Because it's just enabling infrastructure."

Opt-In Technology Framework: Non-coercive approach to global influence

"It's not forced vaccine mandates or whatever. It's, hey, this is all opt-in technology that you can adopt in playbooks, etc. That you can adopt to better evangelize Christ, right? And this is non-denominational, trans-denominational, easily forkable, right?"

Two-Hour Learning for Religion: Educational technology applications

"Ideally, we fund or identify people that can create the two-hour learning for religion. Where you can swap out any Christian denomination, right?"

10. Gary's Calling Clarification

Music Festival vs Discipleship: Honest assessment of ego vs calling

"Where does the desire to create a giant music festival come from? I think, candidly, it probably mostly comes from a desire to be the man. Look at me. Look at me, world."

Unique Value Recognition: Understanding strategic positioning

"Where can I even add value? I can probably weave in some kind of discipleship infrastructure, right? For sure, right? But that would be my contribution to the whole thing versus like, oh, I need to do, I need this to be my festival."

Divine Alignment Assessment: Spiritual discernment about life work

"So, what is right in front of us, Tim? It's one of the most respected open source people of all time, living in his backyard house. And he said, he even mentioned briefly, he's like, yeah, you're going to build the discipleship infrastructure that you talk about."

11. Travis Oliphant Collaboration Framework

Meta Infrastructure Approach: Faith-agnostic but divine-aligned methodology

"Travis Oliphant Meta framework for launching sustainable open source tech ecosystems... It's faith agnostic, but it feels good. It feels divine, right? Where it's not like slave like patterns."

Gateway to Christ Strategy: Spiritual evangelism through excellence

"Because if you start to really love everything that Travis is putting out, you're going to be like, well, what are other big parts of his life? And we're going to mention it in the Bible. Yeah, it's like, oh, the Bible."

Public Benefit Technology: Kingdom business principles

"How should a Christian run a public benefit technology company? I think he has a lot of thoughts on that. That isn't explicitly just for Christians or Christian employees."

12. Movement Building as Life Purpose

Force Multiplication Recognition: Divine calling clarification

"Because I was thinking about it, Tim. Where does the desire to create a giant music festival come from? I think, candidly, it probably mostly comes from a desire to be the man."

Christofuturist Logical Progression: Theological framework for technology

"And this is also exactly in line with the Crystal Futurist stuff, where I believe, again, is it not logically the next step? If you believe that it's the difference between choosing eternal life and purgatory or damnation or whatever."

Open Source Scaling Philosophy: Leveraging existing work for kingdom advancement

"What can we learn from open source technologies? They borrow the work from other people and reuse it with zero cost. Right? They're already starting near the finish line. With the not-discipleship technology, right?"

Divine Permeation Vision: Global spiritual influence strategy

"That's the ecosystem that will really help God permeate the earth, right?... Spread around the world."

13. Aphantasia as Strategic Advantage

Tim's Recognition: Understanding Gary's unique cognitive gift

"I don't think it's your weakness. It's like your specialty. Because I know that you framed it that way in your previous reflection, like, oh, I should be aware of my weakness. But fuck no. This is the thing that allows you to connect the dots."

Optimistic Delusion: Positive interpretation of visionary thinking

"Because where I, Isaiah, anybody else would be like, our mind wouldn't just even go there because we are not optimistic enough. We are not almost delusional enough in the best possible sense where we are not able to think that big of a picture."

Movement Recognition: Seeing patterns others miss

"While you are like, well, Isaiah, what the fuck are you doing? It's actually a movement. Here's how. You've got Bitcoin and crypto. You've got team writing a thesis. You've got Maceham and the whole fucking Lebanon waiting on you."

14. Isaiah McCall Movement Integration

Thesis Writing Opportunity: Academic validation of journalistic movement

"You should totally write a thesis about this, bro. You should totally write a thesis. And you'll also be a fucking legend, dude."

Cultural Analysis: Understanding the power of anonymous truth-telling

"Major strategic breakthrough: concept of anonymous education content account inspired by founding fathers' anonymous publications, allowing completely uncensored discourse without personal consequences."

Movement Building: Organic development strategy

"I'm helping him connect dots. He has a lot of power and responsibility to spread the gospel. And this is an important piece of discipleship infrastructure. This movement itself is a piece of discipleship infrastructure."

Strategic Implications

Discipleship Infrastructure as Life Work

The conversation represents Gary's major calling clarification, moving from various projects to focus on trans-denominational discipleship infrastructure as his primary life work and strategic positioning.

Multi-Denominational Unity Strategy

Revolutionary approach to Christian unity through shared infrastructure rather than theological compromise, leveraging Gary's unique position across denominations.

Technology for Kingdom Advancement

Sophisticated integration of open-source technology principles with spiritual evangelism, creating scalable systems for global discipleship without coercion.

Spiritual Warfare in Organizations

Advanced framework for understanding and combating dehumanizing systems through alternative creation rather than reform attempts.

Notable Quotes

On Human Judgment in AI Age:

"Human judgment is so critical... There's so many different design decisions required for building a movement. And it's like, for what? What is the philosophy? Who to engage and why?"

On Alpha Schools Absurdity:

"The fact that if you email your human manager, then the human manager says, Bro, just talk to the AI manager. That's literally what they would say."

On Billionaire Slavery:

"Joe's like an overfunded idiot. He's won, in a lot of ways, the game of capitalism. But that's not because... It's simply mostly because capitalism was designed by people like him."

On Pride as Insecurity:

"When people think of pride, they think like... Oh, overconfidence. That's an oxymoron, bro... It's steeded from a deep sense of insecurity."

On Divine Love as Security:

"That only comes from... Divine love. Right? Agape."

On Denominational Idolatry:

"You can make an idol of your denomination. No one's going to say that... You basically start to worship the way you worship. Think about it."

On Discipleship Infrastructure Vision:

"Discipleship infrastructure is kind of a genius, like, name. Where I define it as something that can be used by multiple denominations."

On Technology Idolatry:

"You can't make a technology your idol. Which is exactly what, guess what, techno-optimists do."

On Tower of Babel Recognition:

"Dude, they're literally building Tower of Babel to avoid the flood. That's literally what they're doing."

On International Movement Strategy:

"This is one of the only international associations that people that we align with would be like, Oh, this is a one-world government that we would support."

On Gary's Calling Clarification:

"Where does the desire to create a giant music festival come from? I think, candidly, it probably mostly comes from a desire to be the man."

On Aphantasia as Gift:

"I don't think it's your weakness. It's like your specialty... This is the thing that allows you to connect the dots."

Next Steps Mentioned

1. Discipleship Infrastructure Development: Begin creating trans-denominational technological infrastructure
2. Travis Oliphant Collaboration: Apply meta-framework for sustainable open source ecosystems
3. Isaiah McCall Thesis Support: Academic validation of movement building principles
4. Multi-Denominational Funding: Approach various denominations for infrastructure support
5. Open Source Integration: Leverage existing technologies for discipleship applications
6. International Expansion: Develop opt-in global systems for Christian unity

This conversation represents a watershed moment in Gary's strategic vision, moving from various projects to a unified calling around discipleship infrastructure as the optimal use of his unique positioning across denominations, technology expertise, and movement building capabilities.