Gary Sheng and Isaiah McCall Charlie Kirk Spiritual Warfare Miracles Holy Spirit

Date: September 15, 2025
Participants: Gary Sheng, Isaiah McCall
Format: Recorded conversation
Location: Gary in Austin, TX; Isaiah in Japan (at ancient temple)
Context: Deep spiritual conversation covering Charlie Kirk's assassination implications, miracles and the Holy Spirit, Isaiah's jail experience as spiritual rebirth, and the Letter to American Christians project

Executive Summary

This profound spiritual conversation between Gary Sheng and Isaiah McCall represents a significant evolution in both participants' faith journeys and strategic thinking. Conducted with Isaiah calling from an ancient temple in Japan, the discussion covers the spiritual implications of Charlie Kirk's assassination for American Christianity, the reality of miracles and supernatural Christianity, Isaiah's transformative jail experience in Lebanon, and collaborative projects including the "Letter to American Christians" and Gary's vision for a "science of miracles" center. The conversation reveals Isaiah's deep spiritual maturation following his imprisonment, his commitment to submitting fully to God's will over human loyalties, and both participants' understanding of spiritual warfare as more fundamental than political action.

Key Themes and Strategic Insights

Charlie Kirk's Assassination and American Christianity

Isaiah's Spiritual Warfare Perspective:

"Charlie's influence, right? Like in 10 years, there's going to be a bunch of people in politics in America and in positions of power or getting there because of Charlie's influence, right? And Charlie was a moderate, right? So someone has to carry that mantle before these people get radicalized."

Gary's Assessment of Charlie's Evolution:

"He rejected money from Netanyahu. Isaiah, help my son... Connect all the dots in this letter... And then make it more historical, where it's, like, connected to different saints. Who se humble prayer, life toppled unjust, blah, blah, blah, right?"

Spiritual vs. Political Identity Framework:

"This whole Charlie Kirk stuff. Got me. It revealed a lot to me. Who's more about. Their racial identity than their identity as a child of God... What Marcus is doing is he hates the word Christian. He can't avoid it because Christ is Christ. Right. But. The energy is very. Not the right energy."

Charlie Kirk Analysis Insights:

• Charlie was evolving toward questioning Zionist donors and becoming more orthodox Christian
• His assassination creates opportunity for authentic Christian leadership
• Need for someone to influence his demographic before radicalization occurs
• Gary's recognition that racial/political loyalties can override Christian identity
• Importance of connecting Charlie's story to historical saints who toppled injustice through prayer

Atheism and Human Nature

Isaiah's Temple Observation:

"Most of the people now are practicing atheists, but they still come here, I guess, because all other people on the Earth, they feel a connection to spirituality. So they come here to pray for tests or coming to pray for family members. So it's kind of interesting because that's still the case."

Gary's Question on Atheism's Effects:

"What do you think it does to a man to be an atheist?"

Isaiah's Response:

"To a man. It's just going against your own nature. Yeah. That's what I would say... You could always just tell the guys. Just not always. All the way put together... But for a lot of people, it's not who they're supposed to be."

Sam Harris as Divine Instrument:

"Sam harris's job is to. Dissing. God wants him to disenchant people with reality... That's a great job. So great... God driven calling... He can be a good enemy. For pill to unify against, maybe."

Atheism Framework:

• Even practicing atheists maintain instinctive spiritual connections
• Atheism represents going against human nature for most people
• Some individuals may be divinely called to atheist roles as opposition
• Recognition of spiritual instincts even in secular contexts

Miracles and Supernatural Christianity

Gary's Science of Miracles Vision:

"I believe that. You're familiar with the Book of Acts?... So they're, like, raising people from the. I don't know where the Lazarus part was. I forget. But non Jesus people were doing crazy miracles. And healing. Helping the blind see Helping the lame walk... If that's real, everyone should know about that because. Validates their spiritual reality."

Isaiah's Miracle Testimony:

"It's real, dude. It's 100% real... Just getting out of jail is a miracle. And I could easily discount it now that I'm not in it, and I'd say that's why I'm not gonna do that... My dad literally asked him, who's praying for you? And the guy immediately just switched up and was like, oh, my God, my grandma's praying for me."

Saint Charbel Example:

"This guy is attributed to tons of healing, tons of miracles. And then the big miracle that happened to him is when he died... His body didn't decay for months and just stayed preserved. And it didn't involve it or anything... An embalming or anything. His body was just preserved."

Catholic Miracle Documentation Process:

"The Catholic Church has, like, a process? I don't know if you've heard of this. They have a process for documenting miracles to confirm it as, like, a miracle."

Miracles Framework:

• Gary's vision for creating a "science of miracles" center
• Recognition that modern Christians lack knowledge of available supernatural gifts
• Isaiah's understanding that miracles are constantly occurring but rationalized away
• Saint Charbel's preserved body as recent example of supernatural preservation
• Catholic Church's systematic approach to miracle documentation as model

The Holy Spirit and Supernatural Gifts

Gary's Holy Spirit Teaching:

"Christians don't talk about the Holy Spirit. And you might ask why. Is it like this abstract thing that we almost feel obligated to say it's part of the Trinity. Why is it part of the Trinity? Isaiah. Why is it different from God or Jesus? Like, practically speaking. How does the Holy Spirit play into your life?"

Pentecost Power Distribution:

"In the role. That's when the Holy Spirit came on top of the apostles. And gave them their powers, essentially... Prophecy, healing, ability to create miracles, word of knowledge, word of wisdom... What I realized is the vast majority of Christians, like the vast, vast, vast majority of Christians. Don't know that if you believe in Christ. And you receive. Anointing from one of God's chosen modern apostles. You can gain superpowers."

Isaiah's Recognition:

"Well, that was the Holy Spirit giving him exactly what to say, I think... Giving him exactly what to say. And we could also, once again, rationalize what that was and not say was a miracle."

Institutional Christianity's Limitations:

"Very little Holy Spirit. That's my hot take. Very little of institutional Christianity, especially... Catholics, maybe. But also basically every other denomination, including Pentecostals. Because what the hot truth? Let's say that I have heard from people that have spent a lot more time experiencing this stuff and thinking about the stuff. Is the Holy Spirit goes where it wants to go."

Holy Spirit Framework:

• Most Christians don't understand the Holy Spirit's practical role
• Supernatural gifts are available to believers through apostolic anointing
• Institutional Christianity largely lacks Holy Spirit emphasis
• Holy Spirit moves independently and goes to obedient believers
• Recognition that many miraculous interventions are rationalized away

Isaiah's Jail Experience as Spiritual Death/Rebirth

Isaiah's Transformation Description:

"I did die. Pretty much. I died in a new me, was reborn... You know, it's funny... I was in there and I was... And, you know, you think about everything. But I was in there at one point, I was like, you know what? Fuck Gary and fuck my son. You go through everything."

Spiritual Warfare Recognition:

"I told my thought my son was like, you know what? He laughed, but he said, you know what, man? Like, that's the devil. Next time, you tell him, like, fuck you. You don't get my brother. You don't get my brothers, Gary and my son."

Death and Resurrection Pattern:

"Those are true. It was a true death, man. It was a true death. When they say those ancient stories are going to the underworld and coming back. Or literally the resurrection of Christ himself. And we all are supposed to have that, our own little mini levels. I fully felt that. Fully felt that."

Gary's Prophetic Preparation:

"Often I'm led by my spirit, transcending my logic, because I'm like, why do I need to bring up to my friend Isaiah in May or whatever?... That he should be willing to die... No, but, like. Okay, how right was I?... I'm sure that prison cell made you reflect a lot out of your life. Bro."

Spiritual Death/Rebirth Framework:

• Isaiah's jail experience as literal spiritual death and resurrection
• Recognition of demonic attacks during vulnerable moments
• Understanding of ancient underworld/resurrection patterns in personal experience
• Gary's prophetic preparation of Isaiah for necessary spiritual death
• Complete transformation of perspective and spiritual maturity

Letter to American Christians Project

Project Vision:

"American Christians make it like as my son was inspired to write this to the brothers in Christ in America... That, that, that are all asking the right starting to ask the right questions. What do we do? What do we start to do as American Christians? We need the Lebanese perspective."

Charlie Kirk Connection:

"Let's say it's 50 out of hundred. We can get it to 100 out of 100. By connecting it to Charlie Kirk, because Charlie was waking up. He was growing in his faith. Who was putting his faith... Above his loyalties as a human right."

Content Framework:

"And then make it more historical, where it's, like, connected to different saints. Who se humble prayer, life toppled unjust, blah, blah, blah, right? Like, so don't, don't, you know, we don't just take the time to make this as good as possible."

Lebanese Christian Perspective:

"What my wish he could have done was invite Charlie to visit Lebanon. Think about that. The Holy Spirit told me that... Charlie. He did seem like he was trying his best, navigating all these political pressures and monetary pressures, like Jewish donors."

Letter Project Framework:

• Message from Lebanon Christians to American Christians about priorities
• Connection to Charlie Kirk's evolution toward authentic Christianity
• Historical grounding in saints who toppled injustice through prayer
• Recognition that Christian identity must supersede political/racial loyalties
• Lebanese perspective on navigating political pressures while maintaining faith

Spiritual Warfare Over Political Action

Cultural Downstream Analysis:

"Breitbart looks like politics is downstream from culture. It's like, what does culture downstream from spirit realm?... Right, so. Fight where most has most impact... Spirit. Right, so. Fight where most has most impact."

Political Limitations Recognition:

"These people aren't going to fix anything for you... Because you're asking humans to fix. The humans to do. To do material things, to fix spiritual problems, right?"

Isaiah's Political Withdrawal:

"Me as well. It's almost like when you try to help a friend. Even though, obviously, I don't have that much control over America... Yeah, exactly. Casper to swine, essentially... You being on your own path and your own journey is going to be what really helps your own country, your own community. Your brothers, your family, everybody."

Spiritual Warfare Framework:

• Recognition that spiritual realm drives cultural and political outcomes
• Political action alone cannot solve spiritual problems
• Personal spiritual journey has greater impact than political activism
• Understanding of casting pearls before swine regarding unready audiences
• Focus on spiritual warfare as primary battleground

God's Will vs. Human Will

Gary's Submission Teaching:

"My simple advice, which is just. It's like the best advice I could give. Is just completely dissolved your will. And listen to God's will... The Holy Spirit will speak in different ways. It won't just be like, hey, I'm using words. And I'll be like, a feeling. Oh, I should go to Indonesia. I don't know why. Holy Spirit. Are you sure it's like. Yes. Isaiah packed your shit right now. Go to Indonesia."

Isaiah's Wrestling with Sin:

"Another thing I learned I fucking Lebanon, was just not to wrestle. Not to wrestle so much against my own sin. And to just say not to work towards someone, essentially. And to say, okay, these were. I have my shortcomings, and I just got to give in to God and to say, okay, hey, this is where my shortcomings are. And accept that and just, yeah, truly try to give myself over as much as I possibly can."

Republican Party Critique:

"Unless the Holy Spirit, for some reason, is like, no, Isaiah. The Republican Party is my party. Which would be so ridiculous, right? And the Holy Spirit would never say that... Holy Spirit might say, vote for this person... But I would find it very surprising. For that to be the case."

Divine Will Framework:

• Complete dissolution of personal will in favor of God's will
• Holy Spirit communication through feelings and intuition, not just words
• Acceptance of personal shortcomings without excessive wrestling
• Recognition that political parties are not divinely ordained
• Submission to God's guidance over human strategic thinking

Black Community and Christian Identity

Gary's Racial Identity Critique:

"Who's more about. Their racial identity than their identity as a child of God... If you see your race as oppressed, And you say these words out loud again and again. We are oppressed. We are oppressed. We've been put down right... If you believe your words have power. Isaiah, which is part, is becoming part of my theology."

Historical Black Family Strength:

"Even though there was a ton of racism in the 50s and 60s, The black family was very strong. Because there was more. There was only reliance on God because the state did not have anything for them."

Isaiah's Agreement:

"I don't think black Republicans are the answer. They might be. More adherence to the Warner... I think the best way you can help black people is reconnect with God and make that your number one... Guide... Versus racial loyalty."

Hip Hop Culture Critique:

"A lot of the habitual communal habits of black communities are not Christian. Wise word, Christian. They're not in obedience to God. They're in obedience to comfort... In denial about hip hop being, like, a good culture... It's not... It's actually incredibly self destructive and unholy."

Christian Identity Framework:

• Christian identity must supersede racial identity
• Words of oppression may manifest oppression spiritually
• Historical black family strength came from God-reliance, not state dependence
• Black Republicans not the answer if not spiritually grounded
• Hip hop culture as spiritually destructive influence requiring acknowledgment

Strategic Outcomes and Implications

Immediate Collaboration Opportunities

Science of Miracles Center:

• Gary's vision for documenting and studying supernatural Christianity
• Isaiah's potential role in journalistic documentation of miracles
• Creating systematic approach to miracle verification and testimony
• Counter-narrative to atheistic scientific materialism

Letter to American Christians:

• Collaborative project between Isaiah and his son from Lebanon perspective
• Integration of Charlie Kirk's story as cautionary tale about loyalties
• Historical grounding in saints who changed world through prayer
• Message prioritizing Christian identity over political/racial loyalties

Lebanon Journalism Evolution:

• Original project expanding to include spiritual warfare documentation
• Isaiah's unique position as Christian journalist in Middle East
• Potential for documenting Christian persecution and miraculous preservation
• Integration of supernatural elements into truth-telling journalism

Long-term Strategic Vision

Spiritual Warfare Documentation:

• Moving beyond political commentary to spiritual realm analysis
• Creating alternative to both secular and superficial Christian media
• Building coalition of believers who understand supernatural reality
• Positioning for post-political cultural influence through spiritual authority

Authentic Christianity Movement:

• Evolution from institutional Christianity to Holy Spirit-led movement
• Recognition of supernatural gifts availability to modern believers
• Creating network of believers committed to God's will over human loyalties
• Building alternative to both progressive and reactionary religious movements

International Christian Network:

• Isaiah's global positioning for international Christian journalism
• Gary's domestic focus on miracle documentation and spiritual warfare
• Collaborative approach to documenting global Christian persecution and victory
• Building bridges between international Christian communities

Personal Development Trajectories

Isaiah's Spiritual Maturation:

• Complete transformation through jail experience as spiritual death/rebirth
• Movement from location-seeking to purpose-driven spiritual mission
• Integration of relationship stability with spiritual calling
• Positioning for major journalism projects with eternal significance

Gary's Ministry Evolution:

• Movement from political activism to spiritual warfare leadership
• Integration of miracle documentation with cultural influence
• Building systematic approach to supernatural Christianity
• Positioning for major cultural transformation through spiritual authority

Key Quotes and Memorable Insights

On Atheism and Human Nature:

"To a man. It's just going against your own nature."

On Sam Harris's Divine Role:

"Sam harris's job is to. Dissing. God wants him to disenchant people with reality... That's a great job. So great... God driven calling."

On Miracles:

"It's real, dude. It's 100% real... We could also, once again, rationalize what that was and not say was a miracle."

On Holy Spirit Gifts:

"What I realized is the vast majority of Christians, like the vast, vast, vast majority of Christians. Don't know that if you believe in Christ. And you receive. Anointing from one of God's chosen modern apostles. You can gain superpowers."

On Jail as Spiritual Death:

"I did die. Pretty much. I died in a new me, was reborn... It was a true death, man. It was a true death."

On Divine Will Submission:

"My simple advice, which is just. It's like the best advice I could give. Is just completely dissolved your will. And listen to God's will."

On Spiritual vs. Political Warfare:

"Politics is downstream from culture. It's like, what does culture downstream from spirit realm?... Spirit. Right, so. Fight where most has most impact."

On Christian vs. Racial Identity:

"The best thing you can do is to literally be an obedient servant of God and be proud of it and evangelize that."

On Charlie Kirk's Evolution:

"Charlie was waking up. He was growing in his faith. Who was putting his faith... Above his loyalties as a human right."

On Wrestling with Sin:

"Not to wrestle so much against my own sin... I just got to give in to God and to say, okay, hey, this is where my shortcomings are. And accept that."

Conclusion

This conversation represents a profound evolution in both participants' understanding of spiritual warfare, supernatural Christianity, and the primacy of divine will over human strategic thinking. Isaiah's transformation through his jail experience demonstrates the reality of spiritual death and rebirth, while Gary's vision for documenting miracles and supernatural Christianity provides a framework for re-enchanting the world with divine reality.

The discussion reveals both participants' movement away from political activism toward spiritual warfare as the primary battleground for cultural transformation. Their collaborative projects—the Letter to American Christians and the science of miracles center—represent sophisticated approaches to addressing the spiritual roots of cultural problems rather than merely their political manifestations.

Most significantly, the conversation demonstrates the integration of international Christian perspectives (Isaiah's Lebanon experience) with domestic spiritual warfare (Gary's miracle documentation), creating a comprehensive approach to authentic Christianity that transcends institutional limitations and political loyalties. This represents a mature understanding of divine providence, supernatural reality, and the necessity of complete submission to God's will over human strategic thinking.

The Charlie Kirk assassination serves as a catalyst for recognizing the opportunity for authentic Christian leadership that prioritizes spiritual identity over political or racial loyalties, with both participants positioned to influence the emerging generation of Christians seeking alternatives to both progressive and reactionary religious movements.