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Robert Fortuin - Confident Universalism Interview

Speaker Background​

Robert Fortuin received his undergraduate degree in biblical studies from Vanguard University and holds an MPhil Divinity degree from the University of St Andrews in Scotland. Robert's PhD work has been at the University of Aberdeen with a focus on St Gregory of Nyssa's analogical metaphysics. Robert retired in 2022 from teaching Orthodox theology at the University of St Catherine in San Diego and has been a frequent contributor to Father Aiden Kimmel's blog Eclectic Orthodoxy.

Core Position: Confident Universalism​

Definition & Distinction​

Fortuin's position: "I would call my position confident universalism or perhaps strong universalism. Some people refer to it as absolute universalism... It is in contrast to a hopeful universalism that simply says well we don't know for sure that all will be saved but we could certainly hope for it."

Gospel proclamation: "I believe this position, the position that I take is simply a bold proclamation of the Gospel. It is the gospel. I believe that once we start qualifying or putting conditions on the gospel... really we have changed things and we have veered from the biblical message."

Against Hopeful Universalism​

Connecting the dots: "I think it is wrong [to be hopeful universalist] because it's simply mistaken. It's the dots have not been connected... If we consider all these things then I say we dare not disbelieve that all will be saved. Hope stops at this and it is simply not enough."

Strong theological foundation: "If we believe that God is good and goodness itself... that he is truth and beauty and love itself... that God created everything out of nothing for and by and through himself alone freely... that God is all powerful and all knowing... that his will is to redeem all and that none would perish... that he became a creature in order to save his creation... that God Alone is creation's fulfillment... then I say if we consider all these things then we dare not disbelieve that all will be saved."

The Problem of Eternal Hell​

Infinite Punishment for Finite Acts​

Disproportion argument: "It is simply impossible for a finite agent for a finite person to earn the judgment of an infinite punishment. The disproportion between the two between a finite act and an infinite judgment is... infinite, and so there's an injustice there."

God's original intention problem: "The final state of Creation in that story is that some people will be judged and damned forever and now this then is written into the eternal purposes of God... for creation and has done so for all eternity... this actually makes absolutely no sense."

Purpose vs. Punishment​

No remedial purpose: "It also gives hell really no purpose other than punishment. There's no remedial purpose of it. There's no chance to... improve or to come to one's senses."

God frustrated: "It also leaves God then frustrated right? I mean now here we have an eternal state of his creation which in some very serious way has failed... this goes contrary to scriptures that says that it's God's will that all shall be saved and none that perish."

The Nature of Hell in Universalism​

Hell as Real but Remedial​

Real state of soul: "I believe that hell is a real place... I wouldn't go so far to say that it's a physical place in that sense but I believe it to be very real nonetheless, a state or a condition of the soul, a state of mind... just as real as any place any physical location would be."

Purpose of hell: "The purpose of hell is not punishment eternally... rather it's the purpose of hell is to bring people to the realization that only God is their proper end, that only God only in God our hearts rest, only in God can we truly be fulfilled."

Terrible but Transformative​

Biblical terror: "Hebrews 10 it says it's a terrible thing to fall in the hands of the Living God. I believe that to be the case... that it is a very terrible thing."

Process for the wicked: "I would think and I would hope that this is a very long terrible process [for Hitler] to for him to realize everything that he's done wrong, the mistakes that he's made, the horror he has inflicted on innocents."

Christ's Paschal Triumph​

Complete Victory Over Death​

No qualification: "There are no qualifications about Christ's destruction of death... To merely hope is really to waver and it's really not to take serious all that the gospel proclaims."

John Chrysostom's proclamation: "St John Chrysostom says it so beautifully in his Paschal homily: hell is embittered for it was abolished... it's empty... the harrowing of Hades by Christ that is the resurrection, that is the good news."

Partial victory nonsense: "Do we need to qualify that to say well he really didn't destroy death, he destroyed it for some but only partially for others? Death keeps going on and it's just nonsensical especially as an Eastern Orthodox Christian."

The Problem of Dualism​

Evil Persisting Into Eternity​

Theological dualism: "If we say that [hell is eternal] then we are actually creating a dualism... we really don't know that God is absolute goodness... now also we have evil that persists into eternity side by side... there is a trace of darkness, there's a trace of rebellion... in the form of humanity that resists God's will."

Untenable position: "It persists into eternity now we have a dualism, a glaring dualism at the root at the heart of God's eternal purposes... that dualism you cannot just, it's an untenable position scripturally speaking."

Free Will and Determinism​

The Nature of True Freedom​

Modern vs. Christian freedom: "What we're up against I think as universalists is this faulty notion, this modern notion of freedom which basically states... that humanity is completely open, it's indeterminate... Freedom consists merely... in choosing, doesn't matter what."

True Christian freedom: "The ancient Christian position, the classical Christian position is that freedom does not consist in merely choosing but freedom consists in choosing well. Only when we have chosen well, only when we have chosen God are we truly free."

Metaphysical Orientation​

Divine determination: "We are determined, we are transcendentally if you will metaphysically, we are determined to God... it's a determinism but that is actually our freedom. When we choose well, when we choose God, then we are truly free."

Image of God: "We are made in the image of God... this also means that we are oriented toward God that we have a... metaphysical determined orientation towards God and so we cannot fulfill ourselves in any other way but by and through and for God."

The Impossibility of Eternal Rejection​

C.S. Lewis critique: "Hell is locked from the inside... that people choose hell forever... but this is incoherent. It's an incoherent position... it is simple impossible to freely and forever to absolutely God reject eternally... that is actually to be not free, that is actually to be bound, it's to be enslaved to irrational will."

Height of insanity: "If compos mentis with your full faculties in place... to forever and absolutely reject God is actually the height of insanity. That's not being free, that's not being rational. It is actually to be locked up in one's delusion."

Historical Support​

Church Fathers and Saints​

Key supporters:

  • "St Paul... every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord... God will be all in all as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:28"
  • "St Clement of Alexandria expounded on the salvation of all"
  • "St Gregory of Nyssa is unequaled in terms of his exposition of the universal salvation"
  • "St Gregory the Theologian, St Gregory of Nazianzus"
  • "St Maximus the Confessor... his whole theological framework really assumes that all will [be] saved"
  • "St Silouan of Athos"
  • "St Sophrony of Essex... who longed for the salvation of even the demons and the devil"

The Origen Controversy​

Political context: "There's a lot of politics there... one has to understand the political context and the problems there that the Empire and the church were embroiled in."

Suspicious condemnation: "How do you actually anathematize somebody who passed away some three centuries before?... this is very strange... we find no acts or the canons, there's no discussion, there's no record of the Bishops discussing this and saying this is why it's wrong."

Gregory of Nyssa's immunity: "St Gregory of Nyssa because he was so explicit about... universal restoration, he did not get this out of... just from himself... but oddly enough St Gregory of Nyssa is not condemned for it, not in his lifetime, not after his lifetime. In fact he is called the father of the fathers."

The Stakes​

Gospel Integrity​

Good news qualification: "Anything short of a confident faith in salvation of all is in my view taking the good out of the good news. It is no longer an absolute good but a qualified good... if all are not saved then the gospel, the good news as we call it is really not so much good news for some."

Character of God​

Core theological issue: "What is at stake is our account of God, who we believe that God is... the goodness of the good news is at stake."

Coherent theology requirement: "The account that we give, the story that we tell ourselves and others about God has to be coherent, it has to be rational, it has to be intelligible... to have a tragic ending of creation namely that some rational souls that God created that God intended will be forever damned is neither coherent nor rational."

Response to Objections​

License to Sin​

Paul's answer: "Paul said it... shall we sin so that grace may abound? No, he goes that's crazy, that's crazy thinking. You're not thinking straight when you say that."

Real consequences: "Just because all are going to be saved doesn't mean that God is mocked and we can do whatever we want... there is hell... we do have to give an account for our deeds."

Against human nature: "Why would we want to sin?... to sin is to be enslaved... all sin is bondage... it's not being free to sin is not to be truly free. It's actually straying from your humanity, what you were truly created for."

Current Reception​

Minority Position​

Acknowledgment: "It is definitely a minority position, there's no doubt about it and I think there is resistance... that's understandable."

Emotional resistance: "One of the most powerful or strongest arguments... against the universal salvation of all is... this emotional response that we have. We grew up with... we just took it for granted... hell is eternal and that's that."

The Only Coherent Position​

Rational necessity: "I think it's the only coherent and intelligible rational Christian position... the account that we tell ourselves, the account that we give of God has to be coherent, it has to be intelligible."

Final Vision​

Creation's Ultimate Purpose​

Divine intention: "If God created everything out of nothing... that is really a moral claim about God's character as well. It means that when he created he had intentions... there were goals."

Absolute goodness: "If we leave then this darkness and we leave this ever enduring rebellion against God as part of the eternal purposes of God... then we are really changing what we understand the character of God to be... then God cannot be said to be the absolute good, to be absolute love, and to be the absolute truth."

Key Takeaways​

  1. Confident universalism goes beyond hope to proclaim with certainty that all will be saved based on God's nature and promises
  2. Eternal hell is philosophically incoherent - infinite punishment for finite acts violates justice
  3. Hell exists but is remedial - a terrible but transformative process leading to repentance
  4. True freedom consists in choosing God, not in the mere ability to choose
  5. Christ's victory over death must be complete and unqualified or the gospel loses its power
  6. Church history shows significant support for universalism among major saints and fathers
  7. The stakes involve nothing less than the coherence of Christian theology and the character of God himself

This interview represents a sophisticated theological argument for confident Christian universalism, grounded in Orthodox tradition, philosophical coherence, and scriptural interpretation. Fortuin challenges both traditional infernalism and tentative hopeful universalism, calling for bold proclamation of total restoration in Christ.