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The Candace Owens - Nick Fuentes Conversation: Beyond the Caricature

Date: July 12, 2025
Source: The Candace Show - Nick Fuentes Interview
Topic: First Face-to-Face Meeting Between Two Controversial Political Figures

Core Significance​

This conversation represents the first extended dialogue between two figures who have been demonized by mainstream media and conservative establishments alike. The discussion reveals the human complexity behind political caricatures and explores fundamental questions about race, religion, nationalism, and the nature of political discourse in America.

Nick Fuentes' Origin Story: The Making of a Dissident​

The 18-Year-Old Awakening​

"I was at Boston University and I was a big pro-Trump guy... I was very pro-Israel, libertarian, big PragerU viewer, Ben Shapiro fan, all that kind of stuff. But, of course, in 2016, everything changed... I became very racialist, very pro-white, very critical of Israel, very aware of the Jewish phenomenon that's happening in the country."

The Fateful Question About Israel​

"I said, yeah, I said, it sounds interesting, but I think I have everything I need right here in America. And she goes, oh, OK. She wraps up the interview and she gives me her card. We exchange information. I get involved with her. She was involved with RSBN."

The Red-Pilling Process​

"I started to get red pilled. You know, I started to go on 4chan. I started to go on far right Twitter. I started to get into some of these more interesting ideas. And I wasn't sold yet. That's sort of the thing is I was sort of in this questioning phase."

The Daily Wire Betrayal​

The Friendship That Turned Sour​

"I became friends with all the Daily Wire people. There was Cassie Dillon, this writer named Elliot Hamilton, a writer named Aaron Bandler. Those guys were Jewish... I thought they were my friends, you know, and they were talking about, they were setting me up with a writing gig at Daily Wire."

The Forbidden Questions​

"I said, why does the United States give Israel three point eight billion dollars per year?... I said, you know, they're not a poor country and I don't even really know what the strategic value is there... I said, so, you know, what do you make of this whole arrangement?"

The Response to Inquiry​

"They said, oh, ha ha, very good. They almost thought I was joking... But the way you're asking it is anti-Semitic, they said. And, you know, we're happy to talk with you one on one in person, like like they're going to teach me how to ask the question, they said, because the way you're saying it, it's just it sounds hateful and it's wrong."

The Ultimate Rejection​

"Cassie hits me up on Twitter and she texts me this huge block text paragraph. And she says, you know, we're not in the same movement anymore... I'm pro-Israel... the things you're asking, the things you're saying about Ben Shapiro and other people... I'm just not a part of that movement... So we can't be friends anymore."

The Systematic Destruction Campaign​

The Orchestrated Attack​

"This guy, Cabot Phillips... His father, Tim Phillips, ran this big nonprofit, Americans for Prosperity... these people were just pushing this line. Nick Fuentes is alt right. He's a white nationalist. He's a Jew hater. He's an anti-Semite."

The Media Matters Hit Piece​

"The first big hit piece was actually written about me by Media Matters, come to find out Media Matters sourced the material from Cassie Dillon. She sent one of my clips... to Media Matters and they did this big hit piece about me."

The Gaslighting Experience​

"It's literally will drive you crazy because by definition, it's gaslighting because you see it, if you're a logical person, it's obvious... I'm waiting for someone to prove me wrong... And instead of getting an answer, I'm getting blocked. I'm getting tattled on. I'm getting clipped out of context. They're selling me out to the left."

The Groyper Movement Origins​

The Spontaneous Beginning​

"Two guys who watched the show, they went out on their own... I think the one guy asked a question about legal immigration. You're against illegal, but you're for legal immigration. How's that conservative? And then another guy came up and he said something about Israel."

The Strategic Vision​

"I said, because, you know, if we show up in MAGA hats and rosaries, who we are, you know, which is Trump, pro-Trump Catholics. And we present as the real right wing, this is unignorable. And people will start to ask these questions."

The Movement's Composition​

"They are real human beings. They're all young white men or there's other men, too... But they're mostly young men, college age, Generation Z, some of them even high school aged and and all of them very Christian, very Catholic."

On Jewish Influence and the "Fifth Column"​

The Limited Hangout Theory​

"There's this concept of a limited hangout. This is a CIA tool... when they believe that disclosure is inevitable... what they will do is they will leak out some of the truth. The public is so enamored with the new information. They go no further and they actually don't get to the critical details."

The Systematic Penetration​

"It's not just that Israel influences the government. It's not just there's some vague thing going on. There is this pervasive penetration of our society by a fifth column. And it's so sophisticated and multidimensional and spans many disciplines."

The Dave Smith Critique​

"I think that Dave Smith is somebody that because he's Jewish, because he's libertarian, they have selected him as a convenient spokesperson for it because he's not really, he doesn't really have a problem with Jews and their Jewishness."

Candace Owens' Perspective and Pushback​

On Tokenism Accusations​

"That's not why I had Dave Smith on. Actually, I had him on my podcast before I even left The Daily Wire... Schuyler, who you just met the producer, was a massive Dave Smith fan for years... I was like, cool, book him, let's get him on the show."

On Individual vs. Collective Judgment​

"It's ridiculous to say to someone who's literally just born. He's like, I'm Ashkenazi. That's that. That is just his DNA, who is married to a Catholic. So you cannot call him a religious Jew. He is not a Zionist. He hasn't even been to Israel. So how do you just condemn him?"

On the Zionist Fifth Column​

"I agree with you on the point that there is this operating fifth column of Zionism... Because I think it's ridiculous to say to someone who's literally just born... DNA. Yeah, you're 23 and me up there. Jew guilty."

Race, Intelligence, and Civilization​

Nick's Racial Views​

"I am racist, I would say. I believe in the races. I believe there are white people and black people and Hispanics and Asians. And I think that it's a core part of our identity."

The Africa Argument​

"When Europeans colonized Africa, they hadn't discovered the wheel. There's no two story buildings. There's no writing. There's no written language... sub-Saharan Africa, they didn't have that. You take these people out of that land and put them here... They're not going to succeed."

Candace's Counter-Perspective​

"I think that there has been a very sophisticated effort to... keep people from getting ahead... Africa is a pretty rich country. Like, why aren't Africans controlling the diamond trade? Who's taking all the diamonds so that they can't control the diamond trade?"

On Historical Skepticism​

"I'm skeptical of history, full stop, because we're living in a present right now where they're lying about what happened yesterday... he who prints the textbook is king."

Religion and Catholic Identity​

Nick's Catholic Nationalism​

"I'm a Catholic. I've always been a Catholic. I'm a cradle Catholic. So I I've never hated anybody... my criticism of Jews comes from a religious place. As a Catholic, we recognize that the Pharisees put Jesus on the cross and the Talmudic Jews are the descendants of the Pharisees."

On Interracial Marriage​

"I want to marry someone that looks like me, that comes from a similar background, because I want my kids to look like me. I want my grandkids to look like me... I like the unbroken chain."

Candace's Challenge​

"You said that that's not a Catholic perspective... I am not clear on how that could be interpreted as being about race... it's really important for people who are obviously having faith-based discussions to know that that is not a Catholic perspective."

Personal Isolation and Consequences​

The Cost of Dissidence​

"I can't even really have a lot of male friends because there's such an incentive to betray me, to turn your back on me, because there are people that are being paid to attack me all the time on Twitter for information about me, things like that."

The Dating Dilemma​

"What do I do? I go out on Tinder, I go to a bar and I say, hey, I'm a neo-Nazi Nick Fuentes that the ADL is writing articles about every day. I'm going to start a dating profile on Tinder. People are going to screenshot that, mess with me in all kinds of ways."

The Early Sacrifice​

"I took on basically a huge sacrifice at the beginning... there was no calculation... I was 17 and I woke up and I went balls to the wall, bucket of ice cold water... I told the truth and I took on extremely heavy cost for my personal life."

The Beef Between Candace and Nick​

The Groyper War Against Candace​

"People said when Candace Owens split with Daily Wire, people begged her to do a collaboration with me. They said, talk to Nick Fuentes. You stole all his talking points... She said, oh, I can't because I'm on YouTube, but I also can't have him on my website because of some lawsuit."

Candace's Response​

"If you wanted to come on the show, why didn't you just send a big boy message and say, hey, Candace, we should collab?... If you do that, I will definitively not have you on the show... I don't respond to like anonymous accounts. I'm sorry. I'm not 13."

The Resolution​

"I think that you assign evil sometime where there really is just disagreement and that you also feel like the world owes you something for being canceled first. I didn't do it to you... It happened to you for a reason. And just you got to try to make the best of it, you know?"

Historical Revisionism and Truth-Seeking​

The Holocaust Question​

"I don't care about Auschwitz. I don't care about the Holocaust. I'm done hearing about it. I have no affinity with that... maybe the Holocaust wasn't legitimate or, you know, maybe there's more to the story on World War Two."

The Armand Hammer Revelation​

"It shocked me to learn that Armin Tamer... his, however many great grandfathers named Armin Tamer was named Arm and Hammer, literally... he was considered Stalin and Vladimir Lenin's favorite Jew... when Christians were being mass murdered and their belongings were being taken, you got these guys going back and forth establishing districts in America."

The Pattern Recognition​

"If our American history is going to teach us that like, Oh, like the reason they established Armin Hammer's fortune is like they opened all these archives. It's stolen. You stole this from Christians that were being murdered and had all their stuff taken."

The Nature of Political Discourse​

Candace's Philosophy​

"I think people should stop being so fearful to have a disagreement... I truly do believe that the best idea wins. So I think people are going to listen to this and you're going to say, this is why I don't think people should interracially marry. And some people are going to agree with that."

Nick's Approach​

"My job is to put the truth out there. I am the bucket of ice cold water and I'm dumping it on people and some people are going to get it and some people it's going to take them longer. I'll let other people set the plays."

The Mutual Recognition​

"I think that you're tough. I think that you're real. I think that you're you're a little coy. You know, you could be a little coy and you could be a little passive aggressive. But I kind of like that."

Key Insights and Themes​

1. The Making of a Dissident​

  • Nick's transformation from mainstream conservative to "America First" nationalist at 18
  • The role of early persecution in radicalizing political views
  • How questioning Israel became a gateway to broader dissidence

2. The Gatekeeping Mechanism​

  • The systematic exclusion of those who ask forbidden questions
  • The use of social ostracism and economic pressure to enforce orthodoxy
  • The coordination between conservative and progressive institutions

3. The Complexity of Identity​

  • The tension between individual identity and group characteristics
  • The role of religion in shaping political worldview
  • The question of whether racial/ethnic identity is immutable or constructed

4. The Media Caricature vs. Reality​

  • How political figures are demonized to prevent dialogue
  • The human complexity behind controversial public personas
  • The importance of direct conversation over mediated representation

5. The Generational Divide​

  • How younger Americans are questioning established narratives
  • The internet's role in bypassing traditional gatekeepers
  • The isolation that comes with early political awakening

Conclusion​

This conversation demonstrates that behind the media caricatures lie complex individuals grappling with fundamental questions about identity, truth, and power in America. While their conclusions differ dramatically, both Candace Owens and Nick Fuentes share experiences of being ostracized for asking uncomfortable questions about American foreign policy, racial politics, and the nature of elite influence.

The dialogue reveals how political persecution can radicalize individuals, how questioning certain topics triggers systematic exclusion, and how the internet has created new forms of political organization outside traditional institutions. Whether one agrees with their conclusions or not, the conversation illustrates the importance of direct dialogue over mediated demonization in understanding the complexities of contemporary American political dissidence.

Most significantly, it shows how two people who had been turned into enemies by media representation and online dynamics could find common ground through honest conversation, suggesting that many political divisions may be more artificial than fundamental.